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Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
Faith
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Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1 of 275 (798477)
02-02-2017 7:56 PM


Let's hear all the wacko justifications for this violent fascist action against free speech that you all can come up with. Have at it.
Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7383
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 2 of 275 (798479)
02-02-2017 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-02-2017 7:56 PM


No riots took place. This was alternative hugging, alternative central heating and alternative redecoration.

Trump writes:

If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech

It does. That's why Milo was allowed to speak freely by UC Berkeley.

Trump writes:

and practices violence on innocent people

It doesn't. It hosted a speaker that was unpopular with the left wing.

Trump writes:

NO FEDERAL FUNDS?

So apparently a bunch of violent criminals caused $100,000 worth of damage to a university, so we should blame the university for their losses - and issue a threat to defund them. That makes total sense.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-02-2017 7:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Porosity, posted 02-02-2017 8:17 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:19 PM Modulous has responded

    
Porosity
Member
Posts: 86
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 3 of 275 (798480)
02-02-2017 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Modulous
02-02-2017 8:11 PM


And speaking of fascist.. The irony burns.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:11 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 4 of 275 (798481)
02-02-2017 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Modulous
02-02-2017 8:11 PM


Those folks weren't rioting and burning and beating people up because they wanted someone to express an idea contrary to theirs. Just the opposite--their violence is a means of intimidation.

Isn't this the way Hitler started? Anybody remember "brownshirts?"

https://www.britannica.com/topic/SA-Nazi-organization


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:11 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:22 PM Coyote has responded
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-02-2017 11:41 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7383
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 5 of 275 (798482)
02-02-2017 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coyote
02-02-2017 8:19 PM


Those folks weren't rioting and burning and beating people up because they wanted someone to express an idea contrary to theirs.

Then don't give them federal funding. What did UC Berkeley do that would deserve this? Suffer losses after hosting a speaker those violent criminals didn't like?

Isn't this the way Hitler started? Anybody remember "brownshirts?"

Do you have evidence UC Berkeley administration orchestrated the riots?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:19 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:36 PM Modulous has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 6 of 275 (798483)
02-02-2017 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
02-02-2017 8:22 PM


Do you have evidence UC Berkeley administration orchestrated the riots?

Don't try to pull a snowjob on me.

The culture of Berkeley has been established for decades.

In pretending to fight Nazis, they have become Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, and this is condoned from the top right on down.

Remember the "free speech" movement of the 1960s? Its just the opposite now that the "free speechers" are in charge.

Brownshirts I said and brownshirts I meant.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:22 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:49 PM Coyote has responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7383
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 7 of 275 (798484)
02-02-2017 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
02-02-2017 8:36 PM


Don't try to pull a snowjob on me.

Right back at you.

The culture of Berkeley has been established for decades.

What has this got to do with Trump's tweet? Are you saying that UC Berkeley's culture, supported by the administration in one way or another, is to 'not allow free speech' and that their culture 'practices violence on innocent people' and that this therefore justifies threatening to defund them? And that therefore Trump was not talking about the riots specifically but about the Berkeley culture generally?

Brownshirts I said and brownshirts I meant.

So did the administration orchestrate it, as Hitler orchestrated the brownshirts?

Other than using violence to achieve their goals, do the perpetrators have any other points of similarity to the brownshirts?

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:36 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:59 PM Modulous has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 8 of 275 (798485)
02-02-2017 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Modulous
02-02-2017 8:49 PM


Are you saying that UC Berkeley's culture, supported by the administration in one way or another, is to 'not allow free speech' and that their culture 'practices violence on innocent people' and that this therefore justifies threatening to defund them?

Yes, you catch on quick!

So did the administration orchestrate it, as Hitler orchestrated the brownshirts?

The administration, faculty, and most students are lefties. They don't have to "orchestrate" the riots, but just to accommodate them to achieve their ends and those ends are remarkably similar to what the brownshirts practiced in early Germany. The goal is to shut down any and all opposition through street violence.

If you can't see the street violence being a prime weapon on the part of the progs, you need better glasses.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 8:49 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 9:19 PM Coyote has responded
 Message 72 by Taq, posted 02-06-2017 12:04 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7383
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 9 of 275 (798487)
02-02-2017 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Coyote
02-02-2017 8:59 PM


Yes, you catch on quick!

Well here's your opportunity to present your evidence to convince me. I'm British. I know next to nothing about UC Berkeley other than its academic reputation. Enlighten me.

The administration, faculty, and most students are lefties. They don't have to "orchestrate" the riots, but just to accommodate them to achieve their ends and those ends are remarkably similar to what the brownshirts practiced in early Germany.

Accommodate them how? Did they arm them? Did they allow them freedom of speech? Did they allow them to peaceably gather? What? I'm not sure I understand how the ends are remarkably similar. Are they trying to destroy communism? Are they engaging in acts intended to cause a dictator's rise to power? Are they using open display of arms to circumvent a ban on some political party? Are they attempting to recruit a people's army in an attempt to take their slice of political power in a coup? Are we anticipating UC Berkeley will kill key leaders in the rioters growing people's army in order to cement their political power?

The goal is to shut down any and all opposition through street violence.

That's it? That's the same as lots of other groups that instigated violence throughout history. Is this UC Berkeley's goal and is street violence the method of their choice? Are you sure the rioters goal isn't merely to 'fuck shit up'? or 'vent/express their anger'?

If you can't see the street violence being a prime weapon on the part of the progs, you need better glasses.

Are the progs an organised group with a defined leadership? Is UC Berkeley part of this leadership? I, again, am British. Maybe it's the thousands of miles that is at work. It sounds to me like absurd hyperbole. To me it looks like a relatively small group of people with malice intent causing chaos and property damage at a protest. You seem to be seeing an organised conspiracy of sorts.

Also - 'prime' weapon? It's the least effective weapon I've ever seen. Is Milo Yiannopoulos likely to stop talking as a result of this?

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:59 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 10:01 PM Modulous has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28432
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 10 of 275 (798488)
02-02-2017 9:21 PM


Yes the behavior was criminal.
The reaction was criminal but more than that it was stupid. The rioters did exactly what the idiot wanted.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 9:40 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7383
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 11 of 275 (798490)
02-02-2017 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
02-02-2017 9:21 PM


Re: Yes the behavior was criminal.
The reaction was criminal but more than that it was stupid. The rioters did exactly what the idiot wanted.

From what I can determine where there is an organised group, they are a bunch of angry young men who meet on the internet and call themselves 'antifa'. From my observations they are near universally receiving this kind of condemnation from leftists, progressives et al.

The crazies on the right are making not so subtle eye brow movements towards their guns.

Here's to hoping stupid and violent doesn't win out - but the growing divides in US politics has been threatening to escalate for some time. I'm sure the Executive Administration will try to take measures to de-escalate tensions, right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 02-02-2017 9:21 PM jar has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 12 of 275 (798495)
02-02-2017 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
02-02-2017 9:19 PM


Is Milo Yiannopoulos likely to stop talking as a result of this?

That is clearly the intent--to shut Milo and all others like him down at all costs. After a series of riots, how many campus administrations will even entertain the thought of Milo or others like him speaking there?

That's the goal of the rioters--raw power through violence. If you can't see that it's your shortcoming, not mine.

Brownshirts are among us again. Read some history.

In fighting the presumed Nazis, the progs have become the Nazis all over again.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 02-02-2017 9:19 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Modulous, posted 02-03-2017 1:20 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 13 of 275 (798497)
02-02-2017 10:09 PM


Although incidents of physical attacks on people were caught on video and violence clearly characterized the event, not a single arrest was made. Or one was made, depends on which report you hear. Dozens should have been made by the sound of it. They had campus cops and Berkeley cops standing around. Why were no arrests made? This is what makes the University itself culpable, that they did nothing to stop the violence.

One report I heard described a peaceful protest that was then
infiltrated by over a hundred out-of-town "agitators."

The rioting moved into the town where a Starbucks, a bank and an ATM were broken into and looted. What does this have to do with protesting a conservative speaker, or protesting Trump?

I saw video of one attack on a young woman with some kind of spray that inflamed her eyes, when she was simply talking to a reporter in a cheerful way. Her cheerful mood rapidly changed. She had on a Trump shirt and was there to hear the speaker, Milo Yannopoulos. Then she was violently yanked, and hit hard on the head while crying and screaming for help.

What does this have to do with protesting a speaker or Trump? Why were no arrests made?

They cancelled the speaker. Clearly the violence was aimed at shutting people up they disagree with. I guess this is the "Anti Free Speech Movement" in contrast to the 60s protests.

"Fascist" is the right word for violent suppression of free speech and the rights of any class of people. Brownshirts for sure.

Will America ever be America again?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2017 9:24 AM Faith has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15474
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 14 of 275 (798510)
02-02-2017 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coyote
02-02-2017 8:19 PM


Isn't this the way Hitler started?

This is the way opposition to Hitler started. In the end we had to kill millions of Nazis and it took ages to get Europe tidy again.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 8:19 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9321
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 15 of 275 (798528)
02-03-2017 5:40 AM


Riots are bad.
I'm on board with the idea that riots and violence are bad. I don't condone them.

But Coyote specifically and directly, and perhaps Faith more indirectly seems to be suggesting that some "opposition" speech was missed that ought to have been heard. I am really curious about what it is the Milo Yiannopoulos has to say that we all missed the opportunity to hear. I ask that question because history does not allow me to accept without question purity of motives. If anyone wants me to cite some history, I'd be happy to oblige.

I'm also amused at the very low level of action that is required to draw folks to call other folks Nazi's. Apparently promoting ideas regarding white supremacy does not invoke such ideas, while protesting against the promotion of those ideas is right up there with operating ovens for humans.

I'm also amused by the association of Berkeley Republicans with this crackpot.

In short. I smell hypocrisy this morning, and the smell is not coming entirely from the west coast.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:34 AM NoNukes has responded

    
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