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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 710 (800212)
02-21-2017 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by PaulK
02-20-2017 11:59 PM


Re: "Fake News"
Fake news is telling lies. I don't think that is what they should be doing.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 185 of 710 (800214)
02-21-2017 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by PaulK
02-21-2017 12:32 AM


Re: "Fake News"
You are awfully free with the slander. Very much like the lies the fake news purveyors tell.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 192 of 710 (800248)
02-21-2017 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Percy
02-21-2017 8:00 AM


Solme examples of fake news against Trump
fortunately there are sources of information on fake news against Trump that I can refer to because I'm just aware of being drowned in it every day and am not good at keeping track of specifics. Those specifics everyone here demands of me. Yes I'm not good at it. But from my own impression it's often headlines misrepresenting what I know to be the facts.
For instance, the word "immigrant" is just about always misused in media reports of anything having to do with illegal aliens or Muslim refugees. It's a propaganda tool to obscure the fact that nobody is ever objecting to legal immigrants. It is used against Trump all the time to misrepresent what he's said about both illegal aliens and Muslim refugees. And that "immigrants day" recently itself, the whole thing, was exactly that sort of lie/fake news. He wants to deport the illegals who have committed crimes, and that is misrepresented as a mass movement to deport aliens of all kinds. There are some being deported all the time under Obama's orders, and those are treated in the media as the result of Trump's policies instead of Obama's. This is a concerted effort to insinuate some kind of fault on Trump's part which is usually not a fault at all and not Trump's in any case. About Muslim refugees he only said he wants them to be carefully vetted before being admitted, and that gets presented in the news as wholesale refusal to admit any Muslims at all.
More recently there have been headlines implying some kind of collusion between Trump and his administration and Russia. When you read the article there is no evidence whatever, just a restatement of the allegations and that "people are looking into it" or "finding reason" to look iinto it. There may be a line at the end of the article emphasizing that there is no actual evidence for any of it.
A report on the press conference will always make it sound like the poor media are being mistreated by Trump, when Trump is calling them out for their fake news. They will make it sound like Trump is degrading the media in the public's eye when it is the media itself that is doing that.
There's lots and lots of this stuff, it's a daily experience, it's the very air, foul air, we breathe these days, and as I said I'm not good at keeping track of it. So here's some of what I've found online:
Fake News Stories Reporters Have Run Since Trump Won
Early November: Spike in Transgender Suicide Rates
After Trump’s electoral victory on November 8, rumors began circulating that multiple transgender teenagers had killed themselves in response to the election results. There was no basis to these rumors. Nobody was able to confirm them at the time, and nobody has been able to confirm in the three months since Trump was elected.
Ah yes I remember all that utterly groundless hysteria on the part of the LGBT people, which hit me as terrifically strange since I was only too aware that Trump had come out SUPPORTING the LGBT people, to the extent that I realized there wasn't going to be any relief for Christians who in good conscience cannot act in a way that gives support to gay marriage, which is against God's Law. I knew that, why didn't the LGBT people know that? Or, perhaps they did, but the news media didn't want it to look like that, they wanted it to look like Trump was against them.
Then the article goes on to "The Tri-State Election Hacking Conspiracy Theory" which led to the failed recounts in those three states.l
Then to a story I don't recall myself:
December 1: The 27-Cent Foreclosure
At Politico on December 1, Lorraine Woellert published a shocking essay claiming that Trump’s pick for secretary of the Treasury, Steve Mnuchin, had overseen a company that foreclosed on a 90-year-old woman after a 27-cent payment error. According to Woellert: After confusion over insurance coverage, a OneWest subsidiary sent [Ossie] Lofton a bill for $423.30. She sent a check for $423. The bank sent another bill, for 30 cents. Lofton, 90, sent a check for three cents. In November 2014, the bank foreclosed.
...The problem? The central scandalous claims of Woellert’s article were simply untrue. As the Competitive Enterprise Institute’s Ted Frankpointed out,the woman in question was never foreclosed on, and never lost her home. Moreover, It wasn’t Mnuchin’s bank that brought the suit.
Politico eventually corrected these serious and glaring errors. But the damage was done: the story had been repeated by numerous media outlets includingHuffington Post(shared 25,000 times on Facebook), theNew York Post,Vanity Fair,and many others.
January 20: Nancy Sinatra’s Complaints about the Inaugural Ball
January 20: The Nonexistent Climate Change Website ‘Purge’
January 20: The Great MLK Jr. Bust Controversy
January 20: Betsy DeVos, Grizzly Fighter
During her confirmation hearing, education secretary nominee Betsy DeVos was asked whether schools should be able to have guns on their campuses. As NBC News reported, DeVos felt it was best left to locales and states to decide. She pointed out that one school in Wyoming had a fence around it to protect the students from wildlife. I would imagine, she said, that there’s probably a gun in the school to protect from potential grizzlies.
This was an utterly noncontroversial stance to take. DeVos was simply pointing out that different states and localities have different needs, and attempting to mandate a nationwide one-size-fits-all policy for every American school is imprudent.
How did the media run with it? By lying through their teeth. Betsy DeVos Says Guns Should Be Allowed in Schools. They Might Be Needed to Shoot Grizzlies (Slate). Betsy DeVos: Schools May Need Guns to Fight Off Bears (The Daily Beast). Citing grizzlies, education nominee says states should determine school gun policies (CNN). Betsy DeVos says guns in schools may be necessary to protect students from grizzly bears(ThinkProgress.) Betsy DeVos says guns shouldn’t be banned in schools because grizzly bears (Vox). Betsy DeVos tells Senate hearing she supports guns in schools because of grizzly bears (The Week). Trump’s Education Pick Cites ‘Potential Grizzlies’ As A Reason To Have Guns In Schools (BuzzFeed).
The intellectual dishonesty at play here is hard to overstate.
I guess I'll continue at least listing headlines in case nobody wants to read the article:
January 26: The ‘Resignations’ At the State Department
January 27: The Photoshopped Hands Affair
January 29: The Reuters Account Hoax
Following the Quebec City mosque massacre, the Daily Beast published a story that purported to identify the two shooters who had perpetrated the crime. The problem? The story’s source was a Reuters parody account on Twitter. Incredibly, nobody at the Daily Beast thought to check the source to any appreciable degree.
January 31: The White House-SCOTUS Twitter Mistake
January 31: The Big Travel Ban Lie
On January 31, a Fox affiliate station out of Detroit reported that A local business owner who flew to Iraq to bring his mother back home to the US for medical treatment said she was blocked from returning home under President Trump’s ban on immigration and travel from seven predominately Muslim nations. He said that while she was waiting for approval to fly home, she died from an illness.
Like most other sensational news incidents, this one took off, big-time: it was shared countless times on Facebook, not just from the original article itself (123,000 shares) but via secondary reporting outlets such as the Huffington Post (nearly 9,000 shares). Credulous reporters and media personalities shared the story on Twitter to the tune of thousands and thousands of retweets, including: Christopher Hooks, Gideon Resnick, Daniel Dale, Sarah Silverman, Blake Hounshell, Brian Beutler, Garance Franke-Ruta, Keith Olbermann (he got 3,600 retweets on that one!), Matthew Yglesias, and Farhad Manjoo.
The story spread so far because it gratified all the biases of the liberal media elite: it proved that Trump’s Muslim ban was an evil, racist Hitler-esque mother-killer of an executive order.
There was just one problem: it was a lie. The man had lied about when his mother died. The Fox affiliate hadn’t bothered to do the necessary research to confirm or disprove the man’s account. The news station quietly corrected the story after giving rise to such wild, industrial-scale hysteria.
February 1: POTUS Threatens to Invade Mexico
February 2: Easing the Russian Sanctions
February 2: Renaming Black History Month
February 2: The House of Representatives’ Gun Control Measures
The article concludes with a discussion of the general problem:
Maybe It’s Time to Stop Reading Fake News
Surely more incidents have happened since Trump was elected; doubtlessly there are many more to come. To be sure, some of these incidents are larger and more shameful than others, and some are smaller and more mundane.
But all of them, taken as a group, raise a pressing and important question: why is this happening? Why are our media so regularly and so profoundly debasing and beclowning themselves, lying to the public and sullying our national discoursesometimes on a daily basis? How has it come to this point? ...
That I believe is probably the most thorough and least inflammatory account of the problem out there. I got it off a Google page that came up for "Fake News Against Trump" where you will find many other discussions of the situation both pro and con.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 194 of 710 (800253)
02-21-2017 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by NoNukes
02-21-2017 12:47 PM


Re: Solme examples of fake news against Trump
Corrected.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 197 of 710 (800261)
02-21-2017 1:21 PM


The Sweden flap
About the Sweden remark by Trump.
It isn't clear exactly what Trump was referring to, but it could have been lots of different reports on what is going on in Sweden. He said he got it from Fox News, and it's possible. He may have the date wrong. But there's SO much out there about the crime rate in Sweden going up because of the Muslim immigrants it could have come from anywhere.
The focus on the specifics of Trump's misstatement or lack of clarity is of course a version in itself of fake news to distract from the important point, that Sweden is suffering a huge crime problem as a result of Muslim immigration, which Trump used as one example to explain why we need to be careful about taking in Muslim refugees.
The problem turns out to be the stranglehold of political correctness on Europe and on Sweden. They cannot admit to the crime problem because that would be "racist." If it's racist we're talking about Muslim immigrants as the cause.
Here's Fox News trying to straighten out the problem. Listen to the Tucker Carlson video to the right of the page. Two cops try to take back their statement that there is a crime wave but do mention not wanting to be considered racist, which gives it away, followed by an interview of Ami Horowitz who has reported on the increase of crime in Sweden.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 205 of 710 (800270)
02-21-2017 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Percy
02-21-2017 1:10 PM


Re: Emails
It is of course very disappointing to find out that you and others don't want to know the truth, or think you do know it.
If you mean Trump's charge of "fake news", then no, it isn't a claim that the mainstream media is posting hoaxes. As Wikipedia says, "fake news" is "deliberately published hoaxes, propaganda and disinformation purporting to be real news." What Trump means by "fake news" is something different and incorrect. By "fake news" Trump means news that is unfavorable to him, like that he didn't have the largest inauguration crowd in history, or that he didn't have the biggest electoral victory since Reagan, or that there wasn't a terrorist incidence in Sweden Friday night.
Seems to me the examples I posted could be understood to fit the Wikipedia definition. What's a hoax but a false account of something passed off as true? Also propaganda and disinformation purporting to be real news. All those examples could be described in such terms. They are shown to be false, not true reports that just happen to be unfavorable to Trump at all, but false, or absolutely unevidenced which ought to disqualify them anyway; all of them disinformation, misleading, lies. Seems to me the examples given fit the definition well enough. I'd extend it to giving a false impression to mislead the reader.
Way too much stuff at EvC follows a similar pattern: majoring on nitpicking definitional niceties to distract from the important point is a biggie just as it is with the MSM fake news propaganda machine.
Why doesn't anyone want to know the truth? I can understand an aversion to accounts of sheer evil such as Pizzagate, I have that aversion too, but the specifics of the emails are truly odd enough to raise at least a question, yet that is denied too, using absurdly convoluted rationalizations. I wonder what it would take to open some eyes around here? Surely it can't be impossible.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 208 of 710 (800273)
02-21-2017 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by PaulK
02-21-2017 2:29 PM


Re: Something I read a while ago
Accepting for the moment some validity to that maxim, and I may decide it shouldn't be accepted, but for the moment: Trump may be the official President but he is certainly not the "government" -- that still belongs to Obama and the anti-Trump people, and THEY ALL DO agree with the media as has been the case for the last eight years and beyond that.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 209 of 710 (800274)
02-21-2017 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Percy
02-21-2017 2:32 PM


Re: Emails
Pizzagate is an actual example of "fake news."
Are the Podesta emails "fake news" too?

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 213 of 710 (800278)
02-21-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Modulous
02-21-2017 2:42 PM


Re: Emails
Here is some actual Fake News headlines:
"Pope Francis forbids Catholics from voting for Hillary!"
"Bill Clinton's sex tape just leaked!"
Hillary Clinton In 2013: ‘I Would Like To See People Like Donald Trump Run For Office; They’re Honest And Can’t Be Bought.’
Please give the sources of these headlines.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 214 of 710 (800279)
02-21-2017 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by PaulK
02-21-2017 2:47 PM


Re: Something I read a while ago
Of course you KNOW I wasn't speaking literally but figuratively but that allows you to call me a liar doesn't it?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 217 of 710 (800282)
02-21-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Percy
02-21-2017 2:50 PM


Re: Emails
O my gosh. "Pizzagate" is a term that stands for a whole constellation of interpretations that I myself don't accept. The emails are strange and that's what I'm asking. Not whether they exist, but whether there is enough strangeness in them to raise a question.
And, I don't know if I can prove it, but as I understand it the MSM were the first to report on the leak and I think also its implications in something to do with pedophilia, and the alternative media picked it up from them.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 710 (800335)
02-22-2017 11:50 AM


Fake News defined
What I posted in Message 192 is what I understand to be fake news and is what this thread is based on. It is news stories that are demonstrably false. Defining it into oblivion is a pretty scurrilous tactic, unfortunately not beneath EvC of course. If you do not want to use my definition, get off the thread.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 238 of 710 (800338)
02-22-2017 12:23 PM


Crime in Sweden is huge.
What I posted in Message 197 is simply true, there is an incredible epidemic of rape and other crimes in Sweden -- and Germany, and certainly France -- due to Muslim "immigrants." Rapes, gang rapes, burning cars, etc. Denying this takes an amazing blindness, it's hard to explain. Just believing the fake news that is determined to deny it?" Is there any honesty here at all? Not too surprising if not I guess since the dishonesty is out there all over the leftist landscape. They've threatened censorship of the truth and it's probably already underway and soon may be complete, but it's still possible to find some reports of the truth. Just go to You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rape+in+sweden

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 240 of 710 (800340)
02-22-2017 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Percy
02-22-2017 12:16 PM


Re: Fake News defined
Of course retractions don't count in these situations because the point is to get the false idea into the public mind and the retraction rarely gets into the public mind.
Most of the stories reported in that link I saw somewhere on the internet such as on Yahoo News. That ought to count as mainstream news. The first story was published in the Daily Beast. That ought to count.
But the definition of fake news ought not to hinge on such specifics, it ought to be defined by how widespread the lie is.
If you can tell me to get off your thread, I should be able to tell you to get off mine.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 241 of 710 (800341)
02-22-2017 12:35 PM


One report on Sweden
I gave the link to the YouTube page in the previous post on the subject of Sweden. Here I'll give one of the videos. It takes a determination to maintain a blindness to the truth to deny such a report:

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