Flaws in the Scriptures

Hello w_fortenberry,

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Originally posted by w_fortenberry

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And finally I have also provided an answer to Sidelined's statement about the sundial of Ahaz.

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I have read through the previous posts that you linked to, however, could you please clarify:1) Are you saying that the regression of the shadow on the sundial was a vision?OR:2) Are you saying that our solar system is geocentric?Namaste'Amlodhi

Hi AdminNosy, congratulations on your appointment.IISam. 8:4 "And captured David from him a thousand and seven hundred horsemen and twenty thousand foot men . . ." וילכד דוד ממנו אלף ושבעּמאוט פרשים ועשרים אלף איש רגלי אלף ושבעּמאוט פרשים = ELeF USh'Ba-MaOTh PaRaShiMAnd captured David from him EleF USh'Ba-MaOTh PaRaShiM and twenty thousand foot-men.ELeF ( a thousand) USh'Ba- (and seven) MaOTh (hundred{s}) PaRaShiM (horsemen). . . a thousand and seven hundred horsemen. . .IChr. 18:4 "And captured David from him, a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand foot men . . ." וילכד דויד ממנו אלף רכב ושבעט אלפים פרשים ועשרים אלף איש רגלי אלף רכב ושבעט אלפים פרשים = ELeF ReCaV V'ShiBaTh ELeFiM PaRaShiMAnd captured David from him ELeF ReCaV V'ShiBaTh ELeFiM PaRaShiM and twenty thousand foot-men.ELeF (a thousand) ReCaV (chariot) V'ShiBaTh (and seven; or 7x) ELeFiM (thousands) PaRaShiM (horsemen). . . a thousand chariots and seven thousand(s) horsemen. . .IIChr. 36:9 A son of eight years (was) Jehoiachin when he began to reign, and three months and ten days he reigned in Jerusalem. בןּשמונה שנים יהויכין במלכו ושלשה טדשים ועשרת ימים מלך בירושלםבןּשמונה שנים= BeN-SheMoNeH ShaNiMBeN-SheMoNeH ShaNiM (was) Jehoiachin when he began to reign . . .BeN- (a son of) SheMoNeH (eight) ShaNiM (years) . . .A son of eight years (was) Jehoiachin when . . .IIKg. 24:8 A son of eighteen years (was) Jehoiachin when he began to reign and three months he reigned in Jerusalem. בןּשמנה עשרה שנה יהויכין במלכו ושלשה טדשים מלך בירושלם בןּשמנה עשרה שנה = BeN-Sh'M'NeH ES'RaH ShaNaHBeN-Sh'M'NeH ES'RaH ShaNaH (was) Jehoiachin when he began to reign . . .BeN- (a son of) Sh'M'NeH (eight) ES'RaH (ten; but only in comb. form, i.e. -teen) ShaNaH (year{s}). . .A son of eight-teen years (was) Jehoiachin when . . .Namaste'Amlodhi[This message has been edited by Amlodhi, 11-21-2003]

Hi NosyNed,

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Orignally posted by NosyNed

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Can you tell me where the Hebrew comes from here? When was the oldest copy of this written?

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Masoretic text. The Masoretic tradition was possibly started as early as the 2nd century A.D. and, in time, a standardized text was established and faithfully copied. The earliest extant copies of the Hebrew text (with the exception of a handful of fragments) date no earlier than c. 10th century A.D. and all extant copies are virtually identical.

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NosyNed:

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Is the conclusion that somewhere, somehow, someone made a little mistake?

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As you have observed, in this case an early copy error seems as likely an explanation as any. There are some additional variations of the IISam. 8:4 account found in the Septuagint recensions B (Vaticanus) and A (Alexandrinus), however, each of these recensions agree on the IChr. 18:4 account.As to the IIChr. 36:9 account, B (Vaticanus) agrees with the Masoretic text giving Jehoiachin's age as 8, whereas A (Alexandrinus) reconciles this account with IIKg. 24:8 in giving Jehoiachin's age as 18.Namaste'Amlodhi

Hello ConsequentAtheist,

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Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Given the caveat that the term "Masoretic tradition" is vague enough to cover a good deal of textual territory, the idea of a 2nd century standardization seems a bit naive.

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My post was meant to be an uncomplicated response to NosyNed's question as to the source of the Hebrew used in a previous post. I also own and have read Emanuel Tov's "Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible" as well as many other related works and will be happy to have a more indepth discussion with you if you wish.My response to Ned, however, did not indicate a 2nd century standardization:

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The Masoretic tradition was possibly started as early as the 2nd century A.D. and, in time , a standardized text was established and faithfully copied. (emphasis added)

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ConsequentAtheist:
To denigrate the DSS evidence as "handful of fragments" is absurd.

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Here it is well that you point out my lack of clarity even though you split my response out of the original single paragraph. The subject of my response to NosyNed was Masoretic manuscripts of which the Qumran documents obviously are not. It was, therefore, extant Masoretic texts to which I was referring. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.Namaste'Amlodhi[This message has been edited by Amlodhi, 11-23-2003]