The New Neo-Nazi's

Personally, I've always felt it was biology textbooks that caused the massive World War I reperations that Germany had to pay, bringing about an economic depression, and with it the enviroment needed for a nationalist, fascist, militaristic party to seize power, promising to restore a once-proud people to their former glory by appealing to their bigotry to give them a sense of superiority over others.And that's just World War II. Don't even start me on how quadratic equations killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand, or how criticisms of Hamlet fired on Fort Sumter.Book learnin'... bah. Leads to nothin' but trouble.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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How would you characterize university professors who make excuses for some animal who blows himself up in a cafe ?

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About the same as I'd characterize someone who makes excuses for some animal that launches missles at an area populated by innocent civilians in order to get a single wanted criminal. I'd tell them both that they were trying to make a simplistic bullshit black-and-white argument about a situation where there is no clear-cut good guy.And before whipping out the anti-semitism card, keep in mind that Mom's maiden name was Kleinberg. There's a difference between "the country of Israel" and "the Jewish people". Condemning the actions of one is not tantamount to hatred of the other.But don't go reading up on that side of things... that would be education, and we all know where that leads! As evidence, refer to this picture from last year's Harvard commencement: [This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 04-28-2004]

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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Then we disagree on the defintion of fascism. Your response indicates and assumes that you have researched what fascism is but you fail to set the record straight.

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Well... here's what the English language has to say on the subject: You and Dr. Scott may disagree, but you're still making up your own definitions, without any regard to what the word actually means.

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This analysis is accurate because the context for introducing the charge of fascism is derived from its most famous manifestation.

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Ancient Rome?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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I link the high education of the Nazi's and their murder of 6 million Jews to be evidence against anyone who might believe that education cures the proclivity to do evil/sin.

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Then I link the highly educated today, and of that group the ones who justify/whitewash Palestinian terror to be doing exactly what Nazi's did: justifying the murder of Jews.

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And that's where we're having trouble... you're not justifying that link.If you were to raise specific cases of these university justifications/whitewashing, and show how their logic is fallacious, and then show how it parallels Nazi behavior, it would go a long way towards that goal.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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the German command at large were demon controlled

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That would certainly be a lot less scary, wouldn't it?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

First of all, Willowtree, you and I have to have a serious talk about what "specific example" means. Links to other people making the same vague accusation you are is utterly meaningless.Names. Times. Specific actions. These are an important part of a specific example.The only actual example in any of those links is the boycott letter. Mind you, you do not present the text of the letter, or fulfill the second half of my request, which was to show how the reasoning behind the anti-Israel arguments is fallacious.Secondly, you continue to make the mistake of equating the Jewish people with the government of Israel. As a person of Jewish heritage, I find this extraordinarily insulting. It suggests that the actions of a small number of Jews reflects on all Jews everywhere. It dehumanizes Jews, and I would like you to stop.Thirdly, you mistake causality. Decrying the actions of the Israeli government is not the same as excusing the murder of Jews, and you have yet to show how that would be the case. If a Jewish person were to be killed in an alley-way, in a case totally unrelated to the Israeli/Palestinian war, do you think for a second that any of these unnamed university professors would excuse the murder on the grounds that the victim was Jewish? Because every time you accuse this mysterious cabal of professors of excusing the murder of Jews in a Naziesque fashion, that is exactly what you are doing.You ask me in post 93 if I'm aware of professors who argue against Israel, and for Palestine. And yes, I'm aware that all sorts of people make this argument. But if you argue against it, you first have to tell us what argument you're arguing against. You cannot simply state that there are professors who excuse the murder of Jews, because the only example I've seen (the only one you've raised, in fact) is professors decrying that actions of the Israeli government. This is not enough because, as stated above, Jews cannot be automatically equated with the Israeli goverment.So once again... specific examples. Be sure that these examples include a decrying of, or justification for the murder of, Jews. Do not equate Jews with the Israeli government when referring to your example, because under those guidelines you might as well attempt to compare apples and fruits.Then, show how the specific examples are parallel to Nazi behavior. This should be exceptionally difficult since, as has been pointed out to you before, the Nazis personally killed Jews, rather than simply excusing their murder. If these are your grounds for comparison, the college professors would more readily be comparable to the Catholic Church.I look forward to your response.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

I have not accused you of anti-semitism, nor have I threatened you. I have pointed out that you are making comments which are both dehumanizing to Jews, and fallacious, and that I would like you to stop using such arguments.If you would like to discuss cases of prejudice against Jews, then by all means, bring one up and let's discuss it. If all you have is cases in which arguments are made against the Israeli government, and you try to pass those off as prejudice against Jews, then you are essentially saying, "Jews, Israel... what's the difference?" So once again, since you (by your own admission) seem to have trouble understanding this one, I'll try to make it as simple as possible... the two are not interchangable terms. To use them as such is insulting. It is akin to saying, "inner city gangbanger, black guy... what's the difference?" The actions of a few do not reflect on the whole, nor is decrying the actions of a few tantamount to prejudice against the race.Now, you go on quite a bit here about how I got whipped, and how you beat me in the argument... does that mean you'll be addressing the rest of my previous post, or would you rather continue the "nuh-uh, you're an anti-semite!"s and proudly proclaim victory?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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I could say it dehumanizes Jews to separate them from the Israeli government.

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You could say it, sure. You'd have a Hell of a time backing it up, but you could say it. Not that I think you'd try to back it up, anyway.

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Why don't you evidence this nonsense Dan - practice what you preach.

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You've had the logic laid out for you twice now, in increasingly simple terms. Any simpler, and I'm gonna need some handpuppets. Instead of refuting that logic, you've spat back a bunch of "I know you are, but what am I"s.And in the meantime, the remainder of the previous post goes unaddressed...

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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such as.....

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See above.

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You have already dehumanized Jews by defending skinheads dressed in education and suits.

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Oh, this is just getting sad.I can't defend anyone if you steadfastly refuse to point out specifically who and what you're arguing against.

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I doubt you are a Jew or have any Jewish blood in you.

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Then somebody better have a pretty damn good explaination for my wang, NOW. It's missing a big hunk of skin.All that Bar Mitzvah training was pretty much a waste, too...

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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Create a post that lists your main points and I will answer ?

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For the sake of civility, fine. Let's do this very simply.You have claimed that there is a parallel between various, as-yet unnamed college professors, and the Nazi party. I would like you to defend this statement with specific examples.This would require you to tell us who these professors are, and specifically what they have done that merits such a comparison.The only example you have raised so far is that they have decried the actions of the Israeli government. This example is not valid, because:1) "The Israeli Government" and "Jews" are not interchangable terms, any more than "apple" and "fruit" are interchangable terms.2) You have not as yet shown that their statements are due to racial prejudice, rather than a justifiable grievance with the actions of the Israeli government. Refute their logic, and show that racial prejudice is the motivating factor behind their statements.3) Explain how excusing a murder is the same as committing it yourself. The Nazis personally executed millions of Jews. To my knowledge, only a handful of college professors (at most) have actually slaughtered people in their millions. And that was an accident that took place in an Isaac Asimov story.After that, I would appreciate it if you would tell us what your point is. That there are bad, bad college professors? Hell, I could have told you that. The photography teacher at Skidmore college is an utter dick. I'm pretty sure I called him a "total Nazi" a couple times, but in fairness I was exaggerating. (I was trying to chat up this activist chick, and I'm pretty sure I was high.)So?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

Willowtree:Post 122 was written at your request. Do you plan on addressing it?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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What I said/claimed was that ANY university professor who justifies cold blooded murder/suicide bombings is no diiferent from the Nazis who also justified the murder of Jews.

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If all you want to do is give a vague, h ANY-university-professor-who-might-happen-to-do-this, then your point is nothing more than mental masturbation. If that's the case, let me know... you should have your privacy for that.

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I have already posted numerous links evidencing this.

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No you haven't, for reasons you have chosen to ignore. Several times.

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Then you are claiming that you are unaware of any university professors who justify suicide bombings. This makes you out of touch with recent current events - ignorant. The links already provided contain the facts that these evil rationalizations are being offered.

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I have claimed no such thing. I asked you to provide specific examples, so we could discuss the exact nature of these events, and analyze your Nazi comparison accordingly.I've been asking you for nine pages. You have as yet failed to do so. Are we going to need those handpuppets after all?

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The fact that these super intelligent and educated persons who view themselves as civilized are in reality doing the same thing as Nazis - justifying the murder of Jews.

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Provide an example of this, or stop arguing in bad faith. All you have provided so far are links to people discussing professors who decry Israel.

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But, like it or not the Israeli governmemnt speaks for all its citizens regardless of dissent.

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Willowtree, it's time for a bombshell.THE CITIZENS OF ISRAEL DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS EVERYWHERE. Believe it or not, there are Jews all over the planet, the majority of which have never set foot in Israel.Once again, in big type now, because you seem to have trouble reading this one. "JEW" IS NOT THE SAME TERM AS "ISRAELI". "JEWS" IS NOT THE SAME TERM AS "ISRAELI GOVERMNENT" OR "THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL". THE ISRAELI GOVERMNET CAN REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ALL IT WANTS, AND SITLL NOT REPRESENT JEWS. IF YOU OFFER AN EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE DECRYING ISRAEL, THAT IS THE START AND END OF WHAT YOU ARE OFFERING... SOMEONE WHO IS AGAINST ISRAEL.Is that simple enough? Do we need the handpuppets? I can dress them up with little yarmulkes if you want.

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It is evidence of racial prejudice. When suicide bombings are justified it is evidence of racial prejudice.

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You saying this does not make it so. Bring up an example and show how.

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How is the justification and whitewashing of suicide bombings justifiable grievance against the actions of the Israeli government ?

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Gee, Willowtree, I couldn't tell you. Y'see, the person arguing that it is has utterly failed, despite the vast reserves of patience offered him, to provide even a single concrete example. It's very, very difficult to discuss specific actions if the only thing being offered is vague accusation.

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Obviously it is not, but I never said it was. I pointed out that highly educated persons (two groups) have/were justifying the murder of Jews.

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Then it is not a valid comparison. Try comparing these hypothetical professors to the Catholic Church, who justified the holocaust, rather than the Nazis, who perpetrated it themselves.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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You are violating Forum guidelines by constantly repeating a lie - that I have not evidenced/provided links.

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I am fully aware that you have provided links.*pulls out megaphone, puts megaphone directly to Willowtree's ear* THE LINKS YOU HAVE PROVIDED ARE IRRELEVANT TO YOUR POINT, FOR REASONS THAT HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED TO YOU SEVERAL TIMES.

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The point is that the suicide bombings are whitewashed/justified, this fact is challenged by you not to even exist on one hand, then on the other hand, if it is then there are reasons and the persons doing it are "jerks".

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No, I am pointing out that if someone is justifying something, then it behooves the person who disagrees with them to point out why their justification is flawed/fallacious.*pulls megaphone out again* AS OF YET, YOU HAVE FAILED TO SHOW HOW THE LOGIC BEHIND THESE AS YET UNSPECIFIED EXAMPLES OF JUSTIFICATION ARE FLAWED.

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The only issue is the excuses provided by pro-Palestinian persons.

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*raises volume on megaphone* POINT TO A SPECIFIC EXCUSE. REFUTE IT. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO, THEN YOUR POINT IS NOTHING BUT ONE BIG EXERCISE IN MENTAL MONKEY-SPANKING.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

It's a start. Three completely unsourced, one-line arguments is better than nothing.It would certainly help, if you're looking to attribute these arguments to college professors, to tell us what college professor(s) said them, and in what context. Then we'd have specific evidence on our hands!Of course, even if you provide these things, we're also back to one important point that you keep ignoring.Ahem...*the megaphone seems to have had an effect, so Dan pulls it out again* PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF PREJUDICE AGAINST JEWS. EVIDENCE OF PROFESSORS CONDONING ATTACKS ON ISRAEL IS NOT THE SAME. JUDAISM IS A RELIGION. JEWS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF THIS RELIGION, EITHER BY BELIEF OR HERITAGE. ISRAEL IS A GOVERNMENT. ISRAELIS ARE THE CITIZENS OF THIS GOVERNMENT. WHILE THE TWO GROUPS "JEWS" AND "ISRAELIS" OVERLAP, WE ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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Dan, you are the best!

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*bows* I try.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly