The New Neo-Nazi's

First, I would say that it was not the Educated German that committed the holocaust but the Christian Religious German.For example, Dr. Walter Grou in a 1934 speach said...

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This is our answer: "My friend, you are wrong. It is true that we are subject to a higher power. We humans may never interfere with the great laws of the Creator. But you are wrong. See the laws the Creator has established for his world and your life. The great law is that life must be able to preserve itself, and that if it cannot, it will collapse. It is the hard, brutal law of the struggle for existence and of selection and extinction. It was the law we saw day by day, hour by hour, under all the clouds of heaven and all the stars of the sky, in which life seemed to find a senseless death, whether plant or animal or person, whether in distant Africa or near us.
That which cannot meet the challenges of life dies, no matter how much pain it causes,
and even if your small understanding or mind cannot comprehend it, these are the great laws of life and of the world that God himself gave us. These are laws, my German friend, that in our crazy fantasies we broke in the past." Dr. Walter Grou October 1934

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and Hitler...

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It would have been more to the point, more honest and more Christian, in past decades not to support those who intentionally destroyed healthy life than to rebel against those who have no other wish than to avoid disease. Moreover, a policy of laissez faire in this sphere is not only cruelty to the individual guiltless victims but also to the nation as a whole.... If the Churches were to declare themselves ready to take over the treatment and care of those suffering from hereditary diseases, we should be quite ready to refrain from sterilizing them.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech on 30 Jan. 1934

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and in Mein Kamph Hitler wrote...

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I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I didn't say Hitler was a Christian, Hitler said Hitler was a Christian and he, and all of his cronies said that they were doing God's work.I do not blame Christianity for the Holocaust, I blame a mad man. But there is no validity in saying that the Holocaust is the product of education, evolutionists, Christianity or any other such beliefs. It was the product of madmen.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

WTHitler wrote in Mein Kampf

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I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

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I did not write that.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Knowledge does not assure morality. I don't think that anyone has said that it does. In fact, there is no connection between knowledge and morality that I know of.To equate those with knowledge though with Nazis is simply silly. Not foolish, not childish, but silly.And you keep going back to Nazi Germany being the most Educated Nation in History at that Time. That is simply hogwash. Worse it is hogwash without even an effort to support such assertions.Then you rant on with statements like

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University professors in the West, sit in the comfort of their little kingdoms, and constantly spew out whitewash justifications when Palestinian murdercide bombers do their cowardly acts. What kind of animal would walk into a cafe and blow everyone up ? What kind of animal would defy their education/knowledge of good and evil and rationalize these acts ?

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Are you familar with this photo? What kind of animal could place a bomb at the major transfer point for a bus line and blow commuters up?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I believe we all recognize most of the points you are trying to make. But unfortunately, history shows that Religion is also not likely to bestow Morality. Some of the most immoral, violent events in History were done in the name of Religion.It impossible to simply wave away the Nazis and the Holocaust as non-Christians. They said they were Christian and they believed they were behaving as Christians. And they are certainly not alone. Look at the Maryian Mytars, the life of Luther (a bigot if there ever was one), the events of the Inqusition, the Crusades, the continuing waves of slaughter as England went through Catholic then Protestant then Catholic then Protestant regimes.I think everyone will agree that Religion (any religion) should and can provide a moral base. But they must also understand that those same things can be peverted, missunderstood and missused.The problems in the middleeast are not that the Fundamentalist Muslims or Jews do not have a religious base, or that they are too educated or not educated enough. The problems are that there is a struggle going on for power and territory. During that struggle, some will missuse religion to further their own ends.It really is as simple as that.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

WTIf you really want to get into a war of quotes we can do so. But frankly, even the briefest look at what the man wrote, at his speeches, at the speeches of those in power in the party will show that Hitler and all Nazis believed they were Christians doing God's work.But here is one.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

WTYou continue to avoid answering any of the questions raised.You make totally unfounded and unsupported statements and when others refute what you say with supported comments, you rant on.You say Well perhaps. I may well be ignorant and so I have room to learn. What leads you to believe that Germany was the most educated nation in history up until that point?You also say, yet again, provide no support other than your opinion.I think a few people might begin to take you seriously if in any one of the many posts you had offered even one shred of evidence.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

WTYou sound like a nice young kid. But you really need to do some more history research.Almost all of the major European Nations were certainly as well educated and at least as intellegent as the Germans during that period.And yes I know that many University Faculty make absolutely stupid comments. But in particular, the events of Palestine are neither new or religious in nature. It is a struggle for power and land. It has been going on since WWI. At the time of partition, there were approximately 800,00 Muslims, about 60,00 Jews and a slightly smaller number of Christians in the area that was called the Palestine Mandate.I asked you earlier if you were familar with a photo. As a history student, it would be good for you to become familar with that photo and with the events that surrounded it before we go much further.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

WTWhat claims?Everyone has time and again shown that there is no causitive correlation between education and violence.You have asserted that Germany was the most educated Nation at that time in the world. But you have provided nothing other than your assertion that it might be true.Edited to add:And you still have not identified the photo or its significance.You have asserted that some faculty tend to spout stupid things. No one disputes that.[This message has been edited by jar, 04-28-2004]

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There was little uncertainty in that photo

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No WT, you don't have a valid point. You don't even have a point.And you have yet to explain the significance of the photo I asked you about many, many, many posts ago.Incase you have forgotten it...

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You totally missunderstand what is happening in this thread. That is not unexpected, you are still young.No one is trying to stain your assertions.All we are saying is that you need to go beyond simplistic views. And that includes the causes of things like the Holocaust (and also look at all other such incidents including what we in the US did to the American Indians) and the current struggles in Palestine.Sure there are bombastic Professors spouting garbage. And there are iconoclasts on both sides. But your job is to find out as much as you can about all of the causes of such tragedies and to work so that the root causes, the things that happened nearly 100 years ago that led to the Palestinian issue don't happen in the future.To learn more about the photo look at the history of the Irgun, Menachim Begin and the King David Hotel.You're in a perfect place to help make the future better. You are a history major. But please, learn to follow things back to the key errors that all too often are 50 to 100 years in the past.One important thing that would be very valuable is for you to look at the history of the Kurdish Rebellions beginning in the 1920 and right up until today. That is going to be one of the biggest issues we will have to deal with in the coming decades.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

In fact, Israel, particularly the Irgun, behaved in a very similar manner when fighting as the oppressed minority against the occupying British during pre-partition.For some examples there was Deir Yassim, the bombing of the cafe in Jerusalem in 1947, the King David, attacks and bombings of British Embassies throughout the middle east.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

WTI think Mark covered much of the needed response.But just what the hell does mean?WT you have NO points, nothing to say or add, no content, no thoughts, no information, not even a coherent theory.Let's try this one step at a time. Can you make one single cogent statement? If you do that, we can debate it and then move to the next cogent statement.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You keep going back to not just an unsupported statement but to a refuted statment. The Nazis themselves said that they were doing GODs work.It was not that they were highly educated, in fact, the Austrians, British, Italians, French, Spanish, Belgan, Swiss, Americans, Hungarians, Rumanians, Sweedes, Argentinians, Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Canadians, Mexicans, Dutch, Greeks, and many, many other Nations were also highly educated.But they did not commit the Holocaust.Education does not preclude doing evil. Neither does a lack of education.Look at what is happening today in Palestine, Israel, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. Uneducated people are doing evil.Look at the killing fields of Cambodia. Uneducated people did great horrors.Look at what happened in Liberia, Mosambique, Somolia, Ethiopia, Sudan, Chile, Columbia...Evil exists.Evil deeds can be committed by both Educated and Uneducated people.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion