former speed of light

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What the fugue does this have to do with what we are talking about? But for the sake of simplisity,I don't care if these things exist.

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We were talking about a seperation of the spiritual universe from the physical. Angels are spiritual beings, for your information! The light that would have been around in the merged universe would also have been as different from our light as angels are from us. Do you understand now the connection? A spirit would not cut his finger if he touched a thorn, we would.

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I don't know if the physical world we know is the only plane of existence or not.

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Despite, then an ignorance of any spiritual light, which is understandable, can you provide some reason why it simply scientifically could not have been? [quote]"Do you also have 'faith' that we share the same ancestors as cockcroaches? "
-No, I don't have faith in that. I came to that conclusion after having spent many years studying science.
Oh really? You came to that conclusion (that we share the same ancestors as cockcroaches) "studying" -- And you now feel that your 'grandma bacteria' is more believable than God Almighty! Fine. I think we can see what you do have faith in. enjoy.

Well until you clearly propose what you are talking about and suggest ways in which it could be tested you're going to be disappointed. And please don't try to present your laziness as some sort of evidence that your idea is correct.

You did indeed talk about NDE's - you stated "What about the light at the end of the tunnel so many people see in a near death experience? "
NDE is a common abbreviation for "near death experience".Are you saying that that light is the physical light we experience in this universe ? If so what is your evidence ?And unless you are going to say that angels have a physical biological from then they are radically different from both you and the germs.

arkathon The simple answer is that no it is not impossible. But,like the man said,you do not appreciate that the problem is not whether it is possible or not but whether it is going on or not.You imply that there is a spiritual dimension. Ok that is not impossible.However the onus is now on you to show us this is happening.Please feel free to make your case.It is now time to "get into a big thing about how well founded such ideas might be".Put up or shut up.

I don't know whether that is possible or not. I believe angels existed before humans and that the 6 days of creation were actually restoration. Also, somewhere the Bible says Adam and Eve were clothed with light. When they sinned, they found that they were naked and the whole creation was subjected to the "bondage of decay".I have always wondered exactly what was meant by the separation of light and dark.There DEFINATELY is a spiritual world. Any doubters only need visit the heathen tribes in Africa or Indonesia or South America or carribean or visit the "channelers" as they are called in America. Sedona Arizona is a hot spot for this. My mom has met two demon possesed people. I have met one here where I live. Some people, like my friend Micah, have been allowed by God to see the spiritual world.There IS a difference between spiritual and physical light. Spiritual beings cast a shadow in physical light, yet eminate their own spiritual light.I don't know if there was a separation of the two universes or if there is just a whole lot more of this universe in dimensions beyond our 3 that we cannot currently perceive.

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"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

Dark is the absence of light. No, this is merely your opinion. the word heathen still being used in Christian speech?

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

The answer's right there in Genesis. The "separated" light and darkness are day and night. So it is talking about the day/night cycle.Why the author thought they needed separating is another matter - but it's a pre-scientific work and maybe it seemed natural to him that the created light would be "mixed" with darkness.

You are not adding anything to this topic. Duh. Thats why I wondered what was meant by the passage. No, my opinion would be that blue is better than red. To deny the spiritual world is gross ignorance or neurosis.HAVE you seen the actions of demon possesed people or channelers or witch doctors or whatever name they go by???Please add evidence or productive thoughts to this debate rather than YOUR antagonistic opinions.

I guess they better free all them crazy folks in the looney bin then. Just recently up near Dallas a mother stoned her 3 children because God told her to. I guess that makes it ok. Nope, but I have seen a pentecostal church service and was quite frightened at all the "actions" I saw there. Well as far as evidence goes I would love to see some in regards to THE spirit world. I even started a thread asking for some EVIDENCE. none to be had. But if you do have some feel free to share. as far as my antagonistic opinions go what the hell do you think a debate is?

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This certainly seems to me to be a variation of a "created to appear old" theme.I say "If it looks old, there's no reason to think it isn't old".Moose

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Well until you clearly propose what you are talking about and suggest ways in which it could be tested you're going to be disappointed.

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Light comes from far away, and leaves a signature. For our light to have been left more or less as it now is, almost a little physical remmnant (or result of) the former complete light would make sense to me for the following reason. It would have come from the distant stars, but in it's complete state, would have taken no time to get here. This addresses the question of how it could appear to have come so far. It did, it just didn't take, in this scenario, much time to get here. Result--A young creation date could not be challenged by light's present speed. This is I think different from (I think it was Humpfry's changing speed of light theory) just our light changing speed! This is a seperation of the universe into the spiritual, and physical parts, and the resulting light we now have merely a physical slowpoke.

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And please don't try to present your laziness as some sort of evidence that your idea is correct.

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How would one get to work and measure what the properties of the complete universe light would have been? Certainly not by how we can measure our present light!?

Not at all. Physical things age. Sometimes the process can be speeded up somewhat, such as if someone maybe got aids, or some disease, or masive radiation dose, or something that sped things up. What effect on the earth would a seperation of the spirit world from ours have? Some say Adam would have lived forever, had not he got seperated by sin! Wouldn't the world itself, even the rocks, need to have stopped aging as well? What happened in the seperation process that caused everything physical to start aging? If we were to look at an event that maybe 'aged' the physical universe very greatly, it would have every appearance of age. Then if we only measure the age with the processes around, and at today's rates, we would project a very long imagined age backward at how long it would take by the present rates.
So-created to appear old? No. (except as Adam was a grown man, and plants were big, etc) Simply the physical part of the universe as it now exists. The spirit world, heaven, angels, etc. are all immortal, and fine. So will we be again, as we are merged again?!

OK now you have given the extra detail that your claim is intended to explain distant starlight you are clearly wrong.For instance light travelling at infinite speed would have already gone past us and been lost - infinite speed will cover any finite distance in zero time.. Thus the light we see now was emitted at a finite speed.

Let me see if I can follow this. A spiritual being casts a shadow in physical light because it is absorbing photons radiated from a light source and stands (floats?) between the light source and the viewer. This implies a mass or high energy field that affects the photons. This phenomenon of course can be captured by any instrument capable of recording the passage of photons on a recording surface, such as a photographic camera. NO?And you go on to say that the spirit being eminates it's own spiritual light, which is in no way associated with known laws of physics or electromagnetic radiation. So, in essence, if I see a spirit being, it will cast a shadow on any surface in my field of view between it and an external light source and still project luminescence from it's being that will register on my optic nerve the same as photons would.Do I have the jist of what you're saying, Hangdawg? (* whew *)(:raig

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Also, somewhere the Bible says Adam and Eve were clothed with light.

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Sorry, don't think so. If so, please show where.

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There DEFINATELY is a spiritual world.

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I'd have to agree.

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Some people, like my friend Micah, have been allowed by God to see the spiritual world.

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Yes they have.

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I don't know if there was a separation of the two universes or if there is just a whole lot more of this universe in dimensions beyond our 3 that we cannot currently perceive.

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Good observation. But since heaven is coming down here, and God too, to dwell with men, and there will be a new heaven and earth, where death will not be, and the present heavens will 'depart as a scroll'- I also think that God will kinda merge it together again! All's well that ends well. When 'time shall be no more'.