Is christianity, or religion in general, a belief of convinience?

B2P, you sound too nice to be a potential preacher. I really hate to see you turn into a fire breathing preacher, with a southern accent, that preaches nothing but eternal damnation to all who aren't christian white males.Seriously, please don't ever turn into one of those preachers. I would hate to have to kill you and eat your heart.

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The Laminator

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This is a huge misconception amongst unbelievers. Not only is there no partying in heaven, but infact "denying pleasures" has nothing to do with getting into heaven. The whole point is that if you are "chosen" then just how have you earned heaven?...Think about it, it's like me working all year to win the Tour de France, but unless I am the chosen one - I will in no way win the Tour. Therefore, if someone has been chosen, like Saul who became Paul, does that mean Saul earned heaven?Maybe you haven't read the scripture from Christ. Or; "we are unprofitable servants". If anything, I hope to get to heaven - but the small place you've just described is not a place I would want to go to. Even Christ asked, "Does a servant expect to sit down to dinner when he has made ready his master's table" (similar words). So then - if I skipped earthly pleasures, do I seek a reward? And if I "serve" other people - do I expect to sit down to dinner?If we are a living sacrifice, we must be "presented holy". THIS is the reason that we might try and skip sin. Also, we are "unprofitable servants" because servants do not profit. What makes a christian righteouss? Not by I anything, therefore I am everything.I had a dream that Christ was offered a bunch of leaves, and to my surprise he took very few - even less than a third - or maybe about a third. Then I realised that those who go to heaven and those who don't - must all be before Christ as leaves, afterall he is God. Therefore - heaven and who goes there becomes independent of what I think or even try concerning the thing.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-15-2004 12:47 PM

Ofcourse we think it is something else, like a placebo. Otherwise we wouldn't believe. We believe we have the truth, if we thought is was some mental placebo - then we would stop believing. The problem here is, that because we should (according to you)- look at it from another persons perspective, then we should then take that other persons perspective as truth. But why should we? You don't!It's like saying, "Because we think evolution is true, you should see it from our view, and if you still reject it then that is wrong".But what then Yaro? Are you saying that this "belief thing" MUST lead us to partake in each and every religion?How does this wisdom work on yourself by the way? You do realise that you reject more religions than I don't you? You reject one more than me, so aren't you a bit more guilty of what you are saying? Shouldn't you realise that there is something to this "belief thing"?? But that's a strawman of christians. Cos quite clearly we don't say these things. Everyone I know is atheist - do you expect that I say this???If anything, Christ has shown that he has accepted anyone. He came to his own, and his own rejected him. To us - only the story of Jesus Christ is acceptable when concerning this world, and only this explanation is satisfactory. All other religions don't meet the requirements of truth to us.Why should we change this. If someone said, "Apples come from the grass gods, or apples come from trees" which one will suffice? Surely the truth will always make the other claims look silly in your eyes, will they not?Answer this post lurker!

False truths...are they truely false?I know a little heavy on the repetition but couldn't help pointing out such a blatant oxymoron.

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I presented evidence against evolution to my friends who are biology majors, and they just got mad and didn't want to talk about it. They couldn't even imagine the earth not being 4.6 billion years old. How's that for not thinking freely.

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What you have failed to realize is that this has nothing to do with thinking freely, and everything to do with weighing the evidence. As some posters have repeated ad nauseum..."Having an open mind doesn't mean letting your brains fall out."

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The humble Christian has found is finding and will continue to find truth.

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The arrogant Christian may or may not have found truth, but even if he has it is useless to him.

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Many christians who take the bible as the ultimate truth arrogantly assert that there is no other god but the christian one. Again if you can accept one god, why not another?

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You've got it backwards. It is the knowledge of the truth that makes them stand up to any direct challenges against it. But the humble Christian does not run around on crusades trying to set everything straight and challenging every false truth.

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It is the extreme lack of knowledge that allows many a christian to pound their head on the wall of science yelling the mantra..."It just can't be...It just can't be." But seriously, its this arrogance that they are so certain of the truth regardless of the preponderance of evidence for evolution.Again with the oxymoron...

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Well, yeah. Another person's religion may be psychologically meaningful, but not spiritually meaningful. If I know the truth with absolute certainty and something contradicts it, then naturally I'm going to discard it.

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Where's Rrhain when you need him...doesn't he sell rice-a-roni?If you know the truth with "absolute certainty", doesn't that preclude discarding it? I mean how can you [b]know the truth with absolute certainty and then just discard it. Are you sure you understand the meaning of this statement "to know the truth with absolute certainty."

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How can you truly think freely when you choose to ignore a whole dimension of reality?

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my brains just fell out....

"It teaches that the road to heaven is narrow and the way to hell is wide. Scripture was clearly not written for those who want simple answers or an easy, optimistic view of religion and human nature."In this page, Ten reasons to believe in Bible, it tells more accurately the interpretation of the dream in what Christ said from the above quote(wide is the way to damnation etc...). Also, here's the link - I owe those chance tools some airtime; From hereI definately agree that the bible is honest, and it makes out that all humans are sinful. Not a pretty picture for most of the time. So much for the fairytale I've been accused of believing in.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-15-2004 01:45 PM

I just wanted to let you know that I have an invisible pink dragon, who levitates and lives in my garage. You can't see him but he always answers my prayers. He gets in a bad mood sometimes and doesn't always give me what I ask for but I understand and am humbled by it. He also speaks to me in parables, which I am free to interpret. His knowledge is awesome but since mine is not I am imperfect and sin often. If only more people believed in my pnk dragon, they'd know the richness I feel in my life. My spirit's cup runneth over.He also gives me visions, escpecially when he hits me over the head with his HAMMER. to know him is to know love...by the way, he told me that christians are possesed of the devil and that christian faith healing is demonism in action among other christian supposed miracles...he should know (he's all knowing you know).

MikeYou have to admit that those are all pretty weak reasons to believe in the Bible.Claim One: Its honesty. Take a look at the Iliad and you see the same treatment of the protagonists.Claim Two: Using the Dead Sea Scrolls to show Preservation. The Dead Sea Scrolls also included many books that were NOT included in the modern Bible.Claim Three: That it claims it is accurate? Come on. Circular reasoning and speaking from authority.Claim Four: The first Miracle it mentions is from Exodus. And there is no evidence to even support that Exodus ever happened and there IS evidence that if it did happen it did not happen when the Bible says or in the manner described.Claim Five: Unity. There is a whole thread right now of the apocrypha and heresies.Claim Six: Historical and Geographic Accuracy. Sorry, but the Bible has been shown time and time again to be wrong on both counts. See the discussion on Jerico and Ai.Claim Seven: Endorsement by Christ. That may be of value to Christians but it certainly is not a reason for non-christians.Claim Eight: Prophetic Accuracy. So far no one has been able to show independant corroboration of a single prophesy fulfilled.Claim Nine: It's survival. Well, so has the Tales of Gilgamish and they preceeded the Bible by a long, long margin.Claim Ten: Power to Change Lives. Again, this is simply circular reasoning. There will be people that say their lives were changed by reading Ayn Rand or Catcher in the Rye.The Bible is, IMHO, a most significant book. But when folk try to use such weak arguements to support it they simply cheapen everything.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I said... you said... All this makes sense, except I DID give them evidence. I gave them evidence such as that about missing helium, missing Volcanic debris, missing river sediments, continental erosion rates, mostly shallow meteorites, young comets and the poynting-Robertson Effect, and the fact that radioactive decay rates are only known to be constant for a century or less as compared to the earth's supposed 4.6 bill year history.They just said, "No, it can't be... there's... there's all those fossils..." One girl just got red-faced and angry... They refused to contemplate a young earth even though they had no specific evidence to support the old one. This is NOT free thinking. This is what you accuse myself and other fundamentalists of... automatically believing anything someone tells you.[note let's please not make this a side discussion about dating methods]Easy. If you actually DO accept the Christian God, by definition he is the one true God. All other gods are linked to demonism and work as a placebo to attempt to fill the void God left in our hearts for Him to fill. Agreed. That is why I am continuing to learn from both Christian and non-Christian scientists and why I come here, to have my knowledge challenged. ...and of course it is not arrogant at all that evo's are so certain of the truth regardless of contradicting info, lack of info, and the fact that no one knows how it got started in the first place. If I did not know Christ is Lord with absolute certainty, I might as well not believe. Its an all or nothing kind of deal. No half-assing it.Now I THINK I know that evolution is not responsible for life forming and I'm THINK I know that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, but I am still working out the details on that one.

Instead of supporting the other side, why don't you fight the good fight of faith?I shown the link because I agree with the "honesty" part, and God used the link to remind me that he wants me to tell them of the path of destruction being wide. I am guessing you don't believe Christ is the Messiah as you think that no prophecies have been fulfilled.So while your post show your position, many would say that infact it's not the bible that is weak, but rather your faith. It seems it is a stretch for you to believe anything the bible says.Nevertheless, you have stated that you believe in Christ, so I won't be the one who says your faith is weak. However, you certainly don't give the bible much credit.So obviously you do believe he is the Messiah yet you don't heed the prophecies therein???This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-15-2004 02:21 PM

Not really.It is only a very narrow, very limited interpretation of christianity that precludes GOD from appearing to others in any form or fashion. There is nothing I know of in the Christian Dogma that precludes the Christian God from being the same God as that of the Hindu or any other religion.In addition, even Christianity accepts the existence of several forms or appearances of God and there are many parts of the Bible that even seem to acknowledge the reality of other Gods.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Concerning the invisible pink dragon in your garage.While I believe you tell the truth that you have a garage, I don't believe you when you say; Where is the scripture that talks of this pink dragon?Have you any reason to believe he exists through scripture or have people preached him/her to you. (I guess it's a she if it's pink)How do you know it's pink if it is invisible. Good to hear from you again!

The bible says that the God of Abraham, Izaac and Jacob IS God. There is no other, it says have no other gods - and the bible also tells us why - because they are fake, made by mens hands, idols.While I agree there is a possibility of God appearing in many forms, I certainly do not entertain this silly notion that there is other gods. The Jews were exposed to false gods in Egypt, and God says have "no other gods" because obviously he means those false ones his children were exposed to.If your claim; Is true, atleast provide the quotes that show this conclusively.

Exodus 20:2
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain;Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.Leviticus 25:17
Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.Shall I continue?Notice that in all of these it specifically says "Your God" or "Thy God", not The GOd and not even God.Even Paul identified the Christian God by pointing to the chapel dedicated to "The Unknown God" in, IIRC, Romans.Quit trying to tell God what to do.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That does not mean there is other gods Jar. Sorry to deflate your balloon but your quotes prove that God wanted Israel as his people, and him (God) as THEIR God. Obviously he is not going to be the Egyptians God is he!! - This in no way claims there is other gods. Where have I told God what to do?This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-15-2004 02:50 PM

Of course he did. That was the whole point of Jesus.God is not limited to Christians, or Jews, or Muslims.If God exists, then he is certainly capable of appearing in whatever form is needed to speak to individuals. If that means he reaches them as Raven, or Vishnu, or Odin, or Turtle Sister or any other form, then he can certainly do so.Second, the fact that he wanted to be Israels God does not preclude the validity of any other God.Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Deuteronomy 5:7
Thou shalt have none other gods before me.Again, the quotes above do not deny the existence of other Gods but simply say that his people should not worsip them or place them in a higher position.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion