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Author Topic:   PROOF against evolution
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 391 of 562 (132979)
08-11-2004 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by yxifix
08-11-2004 5:50 PM


quote:
Since now, I want clear explantion of creation of the life - from the beginning THANKS.
A quantum fluctuation unbound by time or cause creates an ouflow of energy.
This energy condenses into atoms that contain information given to them by the quantum fluctuation.
These atoms then combine and give rise to other information.
The beginning of life starts when chemical reactions guided by the information stored within the atoms cause self-replicating reactions.
These self-replicating reactions are then accessible to natural selection of random mutations, and new information is created through this process.
Is this good enough? Can we move on to discussing how information is created through the processes of natural selection and mutation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 5:50 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 8:00 PM Loudmouth has replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 392 of 562 (132980)
08-11-2004 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by jar
08-11-2004 6:53 PM


jar writes:
But destruction is natural.
As I have explained to you, there is random mutations. Chance, nothing more.
Most are neutral. They have no effect. Some are harmful. A few are beneficial.
Natural selection is simply a way of saying which actually lived to reproduce, and which didn't. Just history. No direction, no purpose. Those with harmful mutations do not live long enough to reproduce. Those mutations don't get passed on. The critters that got the neutral or beneficial mutations lived long enough to reproduce and pass those changes on. No purpose, no plan. Some are destroyed. It's happened many times. It's all chance.
well, I mean destruction of everything (as I have already mentioned it many times before)
You are saying "random selection", I'm not saying "random destruction" but "destruction of everything", that's a difference.
Taking into account your logic - you are saying "selection" is natural... but why "random selection" is natural as well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by jar, posted 08-11-2004 6:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by jar, posted 08-11-2004 7:24 PM yxifix has replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 393 of 562 (132986)
08-11-2004 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by crashfrog
08-11-2004 7:08 PM


Well, as I said, there are unseparable parts of this theory which does..
No, there's not.
Why would there be? Evolution is a theory of biology; the origin of life is a question for chemistry.
Two different fields, Y. The foundation of evolution is not abiogenesis; the foundation of evolution is observation, hypotheses, and experimentation.
Lets make a poll - Everybody who believes in God [or higer intelligence, if you like] and Theory of Evolution... say it.
Does the Catholic Church count? There's 17.4 percent of the world's population, right there.
What, you thought they were atheists? C'mon.
I've stated clear question: Do you believe in God (truly) and Theory of Evolution as well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2004 7:08 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2004 10:20 PM yxifix has replied

Lindum
Member (Idle past 3426 days)
Posts: 162
From: Colonia Lindensium
Joined: 02-29-2004


Message 394 of 562 (132987)
08-11-2004 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by yxifix
08-11-2004 6:59 PM


Re: Jar, read what he is saying
yxifix writes:
If you pillar starting point just appeared, just was, you can't even think about word "science". Maybe science-finction.
You miss the point. Is the theory of gravity invalid without knowing the the origin of the universe? Your logic would seem to indicate so. In the real world, questions are easy, the answers are usually not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 6:59 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 406 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 2:40 AM Lindum has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 395 of 562 (132988)
08-11-2004 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:20 PM


Taking into account your logic - you are saying "selection" is natural... but why "random selection" is natural as well?
It is simply random, chance. No plan, no purpose, no design.
Some live long enough to reproduce. Some don't.
Conditions change. No plan, no purpose, no design.
Some can survive those changes, some can't. No plan, no purpose, no design.
Random. Chance. Natural.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:20 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 3:15 AM jar has replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 396 of 562 (133002)
08-11-2004 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by pink sasquatch
08-11-2004 7:06 PM


Re: turtles all the way down?
Well, pinky, you can think whatever you want. You are going out of topic, so I won't support you in that and reply. sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-11-2004 7:06 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by mark24, posted 08-11-2004 7:37 PM yxifix has not replied
 Message 399 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-11-2004 7:40 PM yxifix has replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 397 of 562 (133003)
08-11-2004 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:35 PM


Flawed Logic
yxifix,
At Nosy's request I've responded in an approprate thread, here.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:35 PM yxifix has not replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 398 of 562 (133005)
08-11-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by jar
08-11-2004 7:10 PM


Re: evolution vs. origins?
I don't care about organizations I haven't heard before... I'm saying about you, the people who are here in a discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by jar, posted 08-11-2004 7:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by jar, posted 08-11-2004 7:47 PM yxifix has replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 399 of 562 (133006)
08-11-2004 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:35 PM


Re: turtles all the way down?
yxifix - you seem to be the one off-topic, refusing to answer questions until you've taken a poll of people's personal beliefs.
So please, do get back on-topic, and answer the question I posed in a previous message:
What are the unseparable parts of the theory of evolution that address life origins, specifically?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:35 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 3:30 AM pink sasquatch has replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 400 of 562 (133007)
08-11-2004 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by pink sasquatch
08-11-2004 7:10 PM


Re: evolution vs. origins?
pink sasquatch writes:
Again my beliefs have nothing to do with the science of evolution.
You've stated, "Well, as I said, there are unseparable parts of this theory which does..."[address the origin of life].
Please support this assertion, since your personal beliefs have nothing to do with the science of evolution either.
What are these unseparable parts of the theory of evolution that address life origins, specifically?
The creation of information. - you can include it into any part of science as you like, it will be part of evolution.
Do you believe in God nad this theory, or not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-11-2004 7:10 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-11-2004 7:47 PM yxifix has replied
 Message 403 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-11-2004 7:50 PM yxifix has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 401 of 562 (133009)
08-11-2004 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:38 PM


Re: evolution vs. origins?
I don't care about organizations I haven't heard before...
You have not heard of the Episcopal Church, Roman Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Presbyterian Church?
Come on now. Add in the CofE and you have the vast, vast majority of Christians world wide.
But specifically, I am a Christian that fully supports the TOE.
There is absolutely no conflict between Christianity and the TOE. Religion deals with the question of WHY, science deals with the HOWS. Two areas of study, mutually supportive.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:38 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 4:03 AM jar has not replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 402 of 562 (133010)
08-11-2004 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:42 PM


Re: evolution vs. origins?
The creation of information. - you can include it into any part of science as you like, it will be part of evolution.
Funny, when I just asked you about the creation of information you accused me of being off-topic...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:42 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 3:51 AM pink sasquatch has not replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 403 of 562 (133011)
08-11-2004 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:42 PM


Re: evolution vs. origins?
yxifix-
Please explain to me specifically how the theory of evolution addresses the "creation of information", since I don't see it.
Though I could easily see an argument for "change of information".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:42 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 4:08 AM pink sasquatch has not replied

yxifix
Inactive Member


Message 404 of 562 (133013)
08-11-2004 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Loudmouth
08-11-2004 7:18 PM


Loudmouth writes:
A quantum fluctuation unbound by time or cause creates an ouflow of energy.
This energy condenses into atoms that contain information given to them by the quantum fluctuation.
Quantum fluctuation. It creates energy, it creates meaningful information.. why? You don't know yourself. This is not "theory" this is "fantasy". With this example it can be done house full of nice furniture (mentioned before) instead of universe.
Tell me one thing, seriously. When Big Bang happened, why on the Earth (or all planets) wasn't house like that created? Could it be possible if we give it time? eg. billions of years?
It's 1:00 here... going to bed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Loudmouth, posted 08-11-2004 7:18 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Loudmouth, posted 08-12-2004 12:39 PM yxifix has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 405 of 562 (133045)
08-11-2004 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by yxifix
08-11-2004 7:23 PM


Do you believe in God (truly) and Theory of Evolution as well?
Irrelevant. I've already shown you millions of people who believe in both evolution and God.
What's one more on top of millions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by yxifix, posted 08-11-2004 7:23 PM yxifix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by yxifix, posted 08-12-2004 4:10 AM crashfrog has replied

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