Is there such a thing as chance?

Chances are that chance needs to come up with that very first ingredient to chance a chance. Even chance has no chance without that and it doesn't have that first ingredient and, therefore, has no chance.
I wouldn't mind billions of years of this and that, if there were an explanation of where that very first thingie came from that allows the rest of the story. And none of the erudite of science have been able to tell me what chance does chance have without that first thingie.
It's enough to make one believe in God.

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"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!"
2 Cor. 7:1

Uncertainty? No
Uncomfortable? No
And since you have determined that I am uncomfortable, please determine that I am not. I will tell you when I am.
Lack of knowledge? Whose
Caused by God?
Tell me, who causes everything YOU don't understand. And if my determination differs from yours, then it differs from yours.
Thank you.

Astonishing.
Do you read palms?
Crystal balls, perhaps, cards?
Astonishing and wonderful.
'scuse me, must go check if I'm a boy or a girl, on foot or on horseback, bye.

To take good care of it (the earth and all that is in it) is a primary directive for the Christian.
Those who disregard this directive are in error.

You have palavered with most Christians and arrived at this well-thought-out conclusion as to what they should be according to your criteria.
Fascinating and pitiable.
You cannot possibly know what transpires in the mind of Christians,including that of President Bush. But there you sit on your arse of judgment,dishing out opinions with vigor.
And I bet you believe in live and let live and you don't really mind that people believe differently from you and I'm sorry I made reference to your arse please accept my apology.

The Christian's own criteria colored by what?The experience that changed your mind?Never mind, Schraf. Keep up the good work, we need you to help us stay on our toes.

There is no set rule, so far as I'm concerned, as to what makes a 'real' Christian. It is simply a matter between the man and his maker, or the woman. It is not the 'Borg'.
As for inconsistencies? What you have found is for you to handle, but it is not for you to project on others who are compelled to call your clouds sunny weather, or vice versa.
If you are happy with your choices, see it in yourself to let me be happy with mine.
You see no beauty in Christ? I see nothing else.
I do, however, have it much better than you. For I also see rewarding beauty in all of science, regardless.
I am a careful wisher, for I believe in the intelligence of a fellow being until it willfully demonstrates otherwise and it does so when it denies others the right to self-determination.This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 01-17-2005 15:58 AM

Thank you. No diminishment intended, just my opinion that I have the best of both worlds, religion and science, and Schraf does not share this.
Tohido, good peace to you as well.(Don't you just love Texas?)

------------Well, does that mean that anyone who calls themselves a Christian, no matter how heinous their behavior or views, can still be a "true" Christian in your eyes?------------no. Can a Buddhist who calls himself so, be one if he does opposite the teachings of Buddha?------------Let me explain. By "inconsistencies", I mean the fact that there are so very many religions that are currently practiced, or have been practiced in the past. Most of them claim to be the Truth, and that all the others are wrong. They can't all be right, and the largest determinant of what religion you will be is the place you were born combined with the religion of your parents.-------'Sheep have I that are not of this flock'...says the Christ. It simply means he has children everywhere. And the sheep know his voice and when he calls them to come to him, they will come. It's in the Bible.-----------I have no problem with whatever anyone believes. However, when people start to claim that theirs is the One True Faith, and that another faith, or lack of faith, is inferior to their view, I have a problem.
The Christians I have encountered on this board generally think it's normal to think their worldview is superior to all others.
That bugs me.---------so it bugs you, something has to, that's life. Again, Christ has sheep in other flocks, many, many, many. The Christians you mention will do well to think on that.--------------I see much beauty in the Bible and in the concept of Christ, just as I see beauty in Zen, in the Buddah, in the Great Spirit, in Krishna, and in many other religious myths that have great messages of love and life.
Doesn't make any of them the One True Faith.--------Sheep has he that are not of his immediate flock. Myth is what you want? Please help yourself.--------------I do, however, have it much better than you.----
No kidding? How so?-------------perhaps you understand making it all yours? I make it all mine. Really, so glad to read it.--------------No, I clearly have it better than you, because I can appreciate the beauty in Jesus, but I can also appreciate the beauty in Zen, in the Buddha, in the Great Spirit, and in Krishna. I would guess that you would not allow yourself to approach these religions in the open way that I can.------------You would guess incorrectly. For I have great appreciation for the sheep Christ has in other flocks. I am an adopted Cherokee because I understand and know the things of the Spirit they practice and believe, and I am told in a way few whites are able. I go weekly to a Chinese Christian church, I am different but only outwardly (ever eat a very black duck egg? Really yummy). I couldn't care less how people appear, but I do care if they are mean and wish to destroy.

This is wonderful, thank you.
But I'm not trying to preach the word, since - so far as I'm concerned, this is not a suitable venue.
I responded to Schraf with what I considered a proper thought. Sorry it did not please you. I'm absolutely certain you are not alone in this.

quote:

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ask not what your country.....

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this should work
thanks againblow me down, it works.This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 01-18-2005 10:43 AM

I'll address 'my rather negative stance on homosexuality'.A person discussing murder is not necessarily a murderer, however, why would I need to justify to you or anyone, how I feel on certain subjects?So you believe a buddhist that practices poor buddhistics is still a buddhist. You cannot imagine how o.k. that is with me. This has turned into a circular discussion, which is unpleasant to me.Thank you for your effort. You're not after information.This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 01-18-2005 11:06 AM

ROFL
I think you have a crush, but suga, you are not my type.

can we stay on topic?why, soidenly.

Backing off when one is told is a simple courtesy. I do not engage in circular discussion. It means I have decided that 'things' are not going anywhere 'cept round and round.
You call what you do debate. I call it cross examination and badgering.DA to Coroner:
When did you realize that the body you were examining is dead?
Coroner to DA:
All the bodies I examine are dead.
DA to Coroner:
So you did determine that the body to be examined is actually dead?
Coroner to DA:
Every body I'm prepared to examine is dead.
DA to Coroner:
Did the body you were ready to examine come to you this way?
Coroner to DA:
The dead body that comes for examination is dead when it gets here.
DA to Coroner:
I see! So you did determine that the body, which is now ready to be examined, is dead?
Coroner to DA:
All the bodies I examine are dead.
DA to Judge:
Your Honor, I believe this witness is hostile and in contempt of court.
Judge to DA:
The witness has answered your question repeatedly. The bodies he examines are dead when they arrive.
DA to Judge:
Uh......You get to play the part of the DA.
I hope you think about this. It is meant to tell you something, and so without rancor.

But then, you know, someone will come along and say that Christ turned water into wine after the folks at the wedding party had well-drunk.
Then whaddaya gonna say? It's ok with him when people get schnuckered out of their mind?

quote:

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There is no set rule according scripture.
The bible only advices that it is better to get drunk on the spirit, than alcohol.

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The bible says no to alcohol altogether, so what's up with this wine at the wedding stuff?