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Author Topic:   Is there such a thing as chance?
Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 175 (178050)
01-18-2005 5:54 AM


Post linked to moral judgement thread.
Hi All
My post is relevant to chance, but is in response to a discussion on Moral Judgements.
I hope no-one minds me posting it here, posting it on the moral thread may have confused the topic.
Chance & Value
LizardBreath writes:
Since human thought or even human existance has no value or purpose in the universe, but is just a chance occurance of the universe itself,
Perhaps as you say we have no purpose, but we are here, and because of that I believe we have value. To say all is chance, would be denying the existence of relativity completely. I tend to believe that it is actions which determine our existence, and has done since the day dot. Take Darwin, he was a Christian, he also had a grandfather who influenced his life and theories; when Darwin’s daughter died he concluded that evolution was the explanation rather than God as creation. Again Freud, he was born in a caul, and was fettered as being a person of significance because of the caul superstition. Being the only boy, he was also pampered, so the affect of these things helped to shape each as a person, and subsequent theory. This principle applies to all existence, what we do determines the coexistence of all, including relevance to the universe. Though our actions may appear to be minute by comparison, they are still relevant in the domino affect.
LizardBreath writes:
any conclusions from human thought are also of no value from a natural perspective.
Thought, mores, or code of conduct I don't believe can be regarded as irrelevant or no value. Actions stem from thought, thoughts stem from actions. By our actions we influence thought, and by our thoughts we determine actions, each is a link in the chain and we polish it how we see fit, each chain is in turn a link in a net.
LizardBreath writes:
but basically their elements are recycled into the ecosystem and the Earth continues to revolve around the Sun for Billions of more years. No real meaning or consequence.
If such was the case in its entirety why are we here? No matter how far one goes back, even to Precambrian time, there was still life, plants. Is it a sequence of events, natural occurrence, or is it ours to determine? Personally I say it is ours to determine, for every action there is meaning and consequence, to look at a big picture one must look at correlation or relativity, i.e. if you consider decomposing matter, it is not feasible to merely consider aspect A upon aspect B, there is more than that. Other elements necessary for decomposition (flies, maggots whatever it is), and then in turn that decomposition affects the composition of the soil, and water run of. So aspect A & B, are also components of C, D, E and so on. So there is meaning and consequence, but the extent is not necessarily known firsthand as the domino affect plays out. Will earth continue to revolve around the sun for billions of more years? I don’t believe any of us can answer that, but I believe if we are not careful it may be that it won’t, and it could equally be because of us.
Violations & Domino effect:
LizardBreath writes:
So the entire physical universe could disappear but the ramifications of the violation act could survive.
I have no idea what is beyond the physical universe, but if there is anything then yes I would say the chain link would still be in place, and that the ramifications of a vanishing universe would be a part of it. Much the same as if there was only point A & B, in existence if you travel from point A to B, regardless of how you get there, or what tales you tell when you arrive, the journey is over. Should B then cease existing and become C, the journey from A to B could never be repeated. Were A & B to literally disappear assuming that was all there is, then there is nothing.
LizardBreath writes:
And if the violation can survive, then so must the violator or it wouldn't make sence.
If one considers that the act of violation in relation to a domino affect, then there is no need for the violator because the chain of events has already become manifest by the original violation. Take the bible for example; it was once distorted, then at the hands of another distorted again, and so on and so on. The original distortion has been impacted down the line, but the original violator is not necessary to continue the distortion. In the case of the chained net, a weakness in one area creates pressure on another, and the net requires mending to alleviate the stress on the pressured area. You can remove the damaged chain but it will not be the same net, it can never again be the same. This same principle can be applied to tsunamis, or to a murderer, the pressure is of vast difference but each is consequential to prior action and its affect. Project seal, the tsunami bombs, what affect did they have on the pacific plate, we do not know? But if we consider all in relation to relativity then I speculate there was an affect.
LizardBreath writes:
If so, and the act WAS a violation, it suggests that something is wrong or broken in the enviorment, outside of the visable matter/energy engine that we call reality.
The choice of our reality is ours alone and if one believes in God, there is accountability for actions. Even if one does not believe in God or accountability per se, the onus of relativity still exists. To disregard that relativity would be reducing ones own existence to that of no meaning or irrelevance. In essence that denies ones actions as being a part of the broader existence, and if such were the case, I wouldn’t be here. If I don’t accept my role in that I am kidding myself, and if I don’t like it then I might as well stop the world and get off. It is for this reason that I believe, if we encourage goodness, if we encourage respect and regard for life, if we honour what we have, then we have a different potential, than what we would have if we continue to undervalue existence as we do. That is my ideology in relation to existence, chance and our relativity to it, by our very actions and purely by existing. Where God as creator sits in this, I do not stipulate my personal opinion, because my views on that are fairly contradictory to the mainstream of anything.
Shaz

  
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