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Author Topic:   Is there such a thing as chance?
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 77 of 175 (178077)
01-18-2005 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by PecosGeorge
01-17-2005 8:05 PM


Re: Chances
Well, does that mean that anyone who calls themselves a Christian, no matter how heinous their behavior or views, can still be a "true" Christian in your eyes?
quote:
no. Can a Buddhist who calls himself so, be one if he does opposite the teachings of Buddha?
Yes, of course he is a Buddhist. Who am I to say otherwise? He could simply be not very successful at being a Buddhist.
Similarly, didn't you just say that you couldn't actually judge who is a "true" Christian or not, and that the matter was between the individual and God? Which is it?
Let me explain. By "inconsistencies", I mean the fact that there are so very many religions that are currently practiced, or have been practiced in the past. Most of them claim to be the Truth, and that all the others are wrong. They can't all be right, and the largest determinant of what religion you will be is the place you were born combined with the religion of your parents.
quote:
'Sheep have I that are not of this flock'...says the Christ. It simply means he has children everywhere. And the sheep know his voice and when he calls them to come to him, they will come. It's in the Bible.
O...Kaaaaay.
See, that's part of the stuff that every religion says, except with different dieties.
Saying "it's in the Bible" is meaningless when we can also say "It's in every other holy book and religious oral tradition."
I have no problem with whatever anyone believes. However, when people start to claim that theirs is the One True Faith, and that another faith, or lack of faith, is inferior to their view, I have a problem.
The Christians I have encountered on this board generally think it's normal to think their worldview is superior to all others.
That bugs me.
quote:
so it bugs you, something has to, that's life.
It also has the potential to seriously endanger my freedoms and rights, if the people like this are not put in check.
quote:
Again, Christ has sheep in other flocks, many, many, many. The Christians you mention will do well to think on that.
Yes, I'm sure it would be good for them to think on that, but in the mean time, they are not particularly encouraged to do so. In the meantime, they are imposing their views upon many other people in the world and in the US.
An oppressive group which thinks it's right with God is the hardest foe to beat.
No, I clearly have it better than you, because I can appreciate the beauty in Jesus, but I can also appreciate the beauty in Zen, in the Buddha, in the Great Spirit, and in Krishna. I would guess that you would not allow yourself to approach these religions in the open way that I can.
quote:
You would guess incorrectly. For I have great appreciation for the sheep Christ has in other flocks. I am an adopted Cherokee because I understand and know the things of the Spirit they practice and believe, and I am told in a way few whites are able. I go weekly to a Chinese Christian church, I am different but only outwardly (ever eat a very black duck egg? Really yummy). I couldn't care less how people appear, but I do care if they are mean and wish to destroy.
Well, yes, on that we can agree.
...which makes me think of your rather negative stance on homosexuality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-17-2005 8:05 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-18-2005 11:05 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 80 of 175 (178208)
01-18-2005 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by PecosGeorge
01-18-2005 11:05 AM


Re: Chances
quote:
I'll address 'my rather negative stance on homosexuality'.
A person discussing murder is not necessarily a murderer, however, why would I need to justify to you or anyone, how I feel on certain subjects?
You don't. But then why are you here, on a debate board?
quote:
So you believe a buddhist that practices poor buddhistics is still a buddhist.
Sure, why not? It's up to them to decide, isn't it?
quote:
You cannot imagine how o.k. that is with me.
Good.
quote:
This has turned into a circular discussion, which is unpleasant to me.
I've just been following you around.
Stop walking in circles and it will cease being a circular conversation.
quote:
Thank you for your effort. You're not after information.
I am after reasoning and explanation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-18-2005 11:05 AM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-18-2005 4:49 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 86 of 175 (178269)
01-18-2005 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by PecosGeorge
01-18-2005 4:49 PM


Re: Chances
quote:
I think you have a crush, but suga, you are not my type.
Eww, don't flatter yourself.
I think it's more like the way we like to rubberneck at car wrecks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-18-2005 4:49 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-19-2005 10:25 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 100 of 175 (178858)
01-20-2005 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by riVeRraT
01-19-2005 8:57 AM


Re: chance and assumption and random chaos
quote:
So then your not pro-abortion?
Nobody is "pro"-abortion.
We are pro-"safe and legal" abortion.
Nobody thinks abortion is a fabulous, positive thing, but it is a necessary thing.
On the other hand there are plenty of people (often the same people who want to make all abortion illegal) who are, actually pro-death penalty.
...in that they do think that the execution of citizens by the state is a positive, fabulous thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by riVeRraT, posted 01-19-2005 8:57 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by riVeRraT, posted 01-20-2005 8:17 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 101 of 175 (178860)
01-20-2005 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by riVeRraT
01-19-2005 4:23 PM


Re: Environment, not 'sin'.
quote:
The thing I find most amazing is how some people can be cured of these problems in the snap of a finger through God, yet psychologists take years to sort things out. I am one of those people.
What happened to me amoung other things? Well I tell you. I was never able to play music in front of people for the last 34 years. I would get to nervous. My church asked me to play, so I decided to give it another try. Not to drag the story out and get into all the little details, but in the blink of an eye my fear was gone when I asked God to take it away, because I would now be playing for his purpose.
BTW, I still get nervous if I am not playing for God. Now I have tried to rationalize this in my head. I even thought I made this all up in my own head by imagining that I was playing for a higher purpose. But thats not it. I've been over it a thousand times. I am either crazy, or there is a God.
Or, you manage to psych yourself out when you play at church, because you feel totally safe, confident, and accepted there, but you don't when you play elsewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by riVeRraT, posted 01-19-2005 4:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by riVeRraT, posted 01-20-2005 8:23 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 136 of 175 (180150)
01-24-2005 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by RAZD
01-23-2005 10:34 AM


slightly OT
quote:
The choice of which bank to use is innocuous.
I disagree.
Banks have an enormous inpact on their communities through who they decide to lend money to (or not), if only the people who deposit large sums get basic benefits, etc. They also have been at the forefront of the movement in the service sector of maintaining the "almost full time" employee which gives the bank lots of hours of work but the employee doesn't quite qualify for benefits because they don't work full time.
That's why I have my money in a credit union, which is a not for profit institution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by RAZD, posted 01-23-2005 10:34 AM RAZD has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 152 of 175 (181320)
01-28-2005 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by riVeRraT
01-27-2005 8:00 AM


Re: chance and assumption and random chaos
quote:
Feels good, and is good are 2 different things.
Getting high feels good, but it is not really good for you, correct?
It depends.
If someone is using pot, or alcohol, or work, or church, or the internet to insulate themselves from their problems, or to avoid their responsibilities, then all of those things could be considered bad for them.
If, on the other hand, a person is suffering a lot of nausea while undergoing chemotherapy as a part of their cancer treatment, the use of marijuana seems to relieve their symptoms more effectively without as many side effects as other drugs. That makes those people's pot use, their "getting high" very good for them, indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 01-27-2005 8:00 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 01-28-2005 8:27 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 163 of 175 (181621)
01-29-2005 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by riVeRraT
01-28-2005 8:27 PM


Re: chance and assumption and random chaos
quote:
Good in how many aspects, and bad in how many?
All drugs have bad side affects.
So it is not completely good is it?
Never said it was completely good. It was YOU who said it was completely bad.
You said that "getting high is bad for you.", and I just provided an example of a circumstance in which using marijuana would be good for someone, compared to doing nothing or taking other drugs.
So, it's not always and forever true that "getting high" is bad.
DO you agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 01-28-2005 8:27 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:47 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 170 of 175 (181745)
01-29-2005 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by PecosGeorge
01-29-2005 3:40 PM


This will be my only post here, O great Admin.
quote:
The Jews had a special method of preserving grapejuice so it would not ferment....called wine.
Uh, fermented grapejuice is, in fact, wine. Alcoholic fermentation.
Fermented wine is vinegar. Acetification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-29-2005 3:40 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-30-2005 1:43 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 171 of 175 (181746)
01-29-2005 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 5:47 PM


Re: chance and assumption and random chaos
quote:
I didn't mean completely bad for you, just bad, in addition to being good.
Oh. Well, that isn't what you said.
quote:
It goes back to message 132. Some decsions have to be both good and bad.
Or neutral.
quote:
It goes back to the girl with lukemea. If we had enough faith we could just be cured.
So, it's the sick girl's fault that she doesn't have enough faith to cure herself of cancer?
That is really twisted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:47 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:17 AM nator has not replied

  
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