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Author | Topic: What is the Meaning of John 3:16? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Where do you read scapegoat or anything like it in John 3:16 or the surrounding dialog? Nothing I read in this dialog clearly states that Jesus was to take on any of our faults or sins. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Although John 3:16 seems ambiguous as to who we are to believe in, John 3:18 is more specific.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned/judged, but whoever does not believe stands condemned/judged already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. The Book of John is the only NT author that uses the term only begotten son. IMO, our anti-Jewish author was trying to make Jesus different than the past kings who were called "son of God." The author of John promoted the deity of Jesus, which went against what the Jews were allowed to believe. IMO, making belief in Jesus as a deity an additional requirement was a way to keep most Jews out of the club. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Where do you find this stuff anyway? quote:From what I have read, the Nazarenes did not give up their Jewish traditions or intellects when they followed the teachings of Jesus. If you read Jewish history you will find that many Jews who had accepted Jesus as the Messiah went back to Judaism when Christianity started presenting Jesus as a deity and by that time there was no man to have anything laid at his feet. They were unwilling to break the commandment stating that God is one. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I feel that line 12 is actually the end of Jesus talking. Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about being born again, but verse 13 and the rest of the dialog doesn't truly address that subject. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I would agree. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
PD writes: it seems pretty clear that John 3:16 is NOT Jesus speaking but editorial comment. Actually that was jar's statement I quoted, I merely agreed with him.
quote:Exactly, human wisdom and creativity, which is what also created the doctrines and traditions throughout history. quote:Jesus did not teach this. This teaching was created by man. quote:Another teaching created by man and not taught by Jesus. quote:Theology is nothing more than the study of God and religious doctrines, which is exactly what we are doing. I just look for the reality of what the human authors were trying to teach to see if they truly support current manmade doctrines. quote:Are you assuming that the Holy Spirit does not guide us to understand the reality of the Bible or show us the possibility that an author is being misused? quote:How to get to Heaven is another manmade game. Actually, IMO, understanding the reality of the Bible allows people to realize that courteous and benevolent behavior is good for society, the family, and the individual. Mankind continually strives to embrace this behavior.
quote:If I am are going to trust the scriptures, then I must trust the unknown author and what he wrote. If I am going to trust what he wrote, then I need to understand what the author truly wrote and the culture that inspired his writings unfettered by today's traditions and dogma. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I didn't say that you did. I'm asking how you get scapegoat and what it implies (taking on the sins of another) from the verse in John 3:16 or any of that conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. How does any of what you posted deal with John 3:16 or that specific conversation? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I didn't say it was not appropriate. quote: I seriously want to know where, in this conversation that Nicodemus is having with Jesus, do you interpret taking on faults. Where do you see that message in the text of their conversation? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
See that wasn't so difficult.
All you had to say was "Because doctrine and tradition said so." "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Hey jar,
It is interesting that the Book of John and 1 John are the only authors to speak of believing in the name. If we read the passage unclouded by today's doctrine and traditions, John 3:16 does fit with what Jesus was supposedly teaching.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he sent his son to prepare the world for the coming of the Kingdom of God. (repent and be baptized) God did not send his son to judge the world but to save it by preparing it through his teachings. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:What were they supposed to believe at that time: That what Jesus taught about the coming kingdom was true?That Jesus was the son of God? That the son of God was named Jesus? How were they to strive for spirituality at that time? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:You changed the noun, now it is believe in the Messiah. Believe what? Believe what the scriptures say about the Messiah.Believe that the Messiah is the son of God literally? Believe that Jesus was the Messiah? Believe what the Messiah said once he had proven himself to be the messiah? Believe others who claim someone is the messiah? Believe that the Messiah will come? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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