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Author Topic:   Did Adam and eve really have a choice?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 219 (247095)
09-28-2005 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by black wolf
09-28-2005 6:52 PM


Re: just a thought...
What if God changed the laws of nature, worked a miracle, and then changed them back to what they had been before? Then there would be no way to examine that miracle scientifically
Why? For one thing, wouldn't people in the universe notice that, suddenly, the laws of physics changed, and then changed back?
And wouldn't you still have the actual miracle to study?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by black wolf, posted 09-28-2005 6:52 PM black wolf has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 112 of 219 (247433)
09-29-2005 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by iano
09-29-2005 12:13 PM


Re: We meet again - (I sure hope it will be up there)
The article demonstrates why it's called Quantum theory, not Quantum fact...
Quantum facts are facts. Quantum theory is the model that explains those facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by iano, posted 09-29-2005 12:13 PM iano has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 125 of 219 (247782)
09-30-2005 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by iano
09-30-2005 6:58 AM


Re: We meet again
Iano wanders out of the pub, glares bleary-eyed around the car park for his motorbike. Staggering over to it, he says to himself "Think, hic!, I'll give her a good rip down to the chip hic! shop.
Rounding a tight corner at high speed he loses control, mounts a kerb and ploughs into a woman pushing her kid in a pram. All three killed instantly.
Who do you blame? Yamaha?
Iano builds a playpen for his infant children, but leaves a powerful circular saw in the middle, plugged in:
"Don't touch the saw!" Iano sternly warns his infants, who are barely old enough to talk. "The consequences will be dire in the extreme, I assure you!" He then leaves.
Later, when one of his kids is being sent to the hospital, or the morgue, with a few of his limbs cut off, who should we blame then? The "choice" of his infant to play with the saw?
That's not going to fly with the court that, later, is going to convict Iano of child endangerment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by iano, posted 09-30-2005 6:58 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 10-01-2005 7:01 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 134 by iano, posted 10-03-2005 9:47 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 128 of 219 (247899)
10-01-2005 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
10-01-2005 7:01 AM


Re: We meet again
If we find Him guilty, do we banish Him from our collective imaginations?
Sure, why not? What's he gonna do about it? I notice that Marduk and Thor went quietly into that good night; I doubt Yehova or Yaweh or whatever you want to call him is going to give us much trouble.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 10-01-2005 7:01 AM Phat has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 218 of 219 (251960)
10-15-2005 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Hawkins
10-15-2005 11:24 AM


If He cant "not go ahead of our time to know our choices if He chooses to", he's not omnipotence then.
You've got the limitation wrong. God cannot choose to forego knowledge about our future actions; the limitation is not in God's power but in the universe he has created. He's still omnipotent, he just can't do that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Hawkins, posted 10-15-2005 11:24 AM Hawkins has not replied

  
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