Abortion

So your objection is: people are using abortion to help maintain the lifestyle they want? To which, I reply duh - that's the point!Maintaining freedom of choice about anything (not just a woman choosing what happens to her body) is all about letting people make the choices they want so they can have the lifestyle they want. It assumes that, in most cases, the person best able to decide the best course of action for them is themselves.I don't see anything faintly disturbing about the fact people are exercising their right to choose in order to get the lifestyle they want. There's nothing childish about that; it's stepping up to the plate and making the decision.

quote:

---

I also consider "unmarried women (81%)" a perfectly valid reason for an early abortion....

---

Me, I consider "I don't want to be pregnant" to be a perfectly valid reason an abortion.

And I'll say - Yep me too.

Certainly in the early stages, I agree with this. I don't think there should be any restrictions for the first 6-8 weeks or so -- long enough to remove any doubt about being pregnant but early enough that it is a minor operation and there has been no significant development.If one gets beyond this point I have to wonder, if that is the reason then why wasn't it done earlier?This decision is harder for some than others because of their {family\faith\cultural\social} beliefs, but I also do think anyone engaging in {recreational\uncommited} sex should have pre-considered the results.Another concern (to me) is where uneducated ignorance leads to pregnancies.Notice the CDC survey showed an increase in abortions before 6 weeks, and this is consistent with having this option being freely available to those who want to take advantage of it.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Hello, RAZD.

quote:

---

If one gets beyond this point I have to wonder, if that is the reason then why wasn't it done earlier?

---

As for me, I don't care. The reason might be because the woman lives in a rural midwestern state with the nearest abortion provider being rather far away and she doesn't have a reliable means of travelling that far, and the state has some sort of onerous waiting period requirement. Or the reason might be the woman simply changed her mind -- she decided to have the kid, but later she decided that she didn't want a child after all. Hell, maybe she wants to "fit into her prom dress", as some of the pro-lifers put it. In any case, it's all the same to me. She's pregnant, she doesn't want to be pregnant, so, as far as I'm concerned, she has the right to be not pregnant.

I agree that there could be many valid reasons for a delay.What I disagree with is that preconsidering the consequences of actions taken is unnecessary.When you remove all personal accountability for actions taken ...... you end up with President Botch.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I sent email to a friend today but it was returned with the message: ABORTED: TOO MANY BODY PARTS

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

---

When you remove all personal accountability for actions taken ...

---

There are situations to worry about "personal accountability", and there are situations where "personal accountability" seems irrelevant. If I have a cavity that needs to be filled, there are all sorts of issues about "accountability" -- proper diet, proper dental hygiene. Logically, issues of accountability become more relevant if I wait so long that it is necessary to do a root canal and cap the tooth, and even more relevant if I really delay and have to have the tooth pulled completely.Yet, for some reason, I never hear people talk about "personal accountability" when someone goes in for dental treatment. I wonder why that is.

um,are youmarried?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Holmes,Well... I think we've got to the point where we're falling farther and farther away from the topic. Some of your points I agree with, and some I do not.. and there's definitely a lot more to be said.The point I'm most interested to address from this discussion is that of "what is the role of science (i.e. epstemic knowledge) in government?" And I see that it's going to encompass the question of "who determines epistemic knowledge?"It's not going to be easy. But that's where I'd like to go with this. So, I'm going to open a PNT on this, and drop this discussion here and move to there. Is that cool?Nice post by the way.BenP.S. Holmes, honestly, the less I see you here, the happier I am. I expected to see you even less, starting after your ... previous break here. You strike me as such a philosophical, thinking person... and the people who I like best are the ones who balance that with doing "cool" stuff. So I was happy to hear you wanted to spend less time here. Maybe that sounds weird and judgemental. It's not supposed to be.Anyway, no need to explain why you won't be around, but I appreciate it. You can always assume that if I'm not here, I'm doing something MUCH cooler like rock climbing or hiking. So... sorry in advance... but yeah, it's just gotta be that way.

---

I don't want a large Farva, I want a goddamn liter-a-cola.

That's fine. That almost reminded me of the scene in Good Will Hunting, where Affleck told Damon he kept hoping that one day Damon just wouldn't be there (at home) anymore, and that was a sign of what a good friend Affleck was.I wish conditions were such that my desire to pop on as much as I do would get overridden by cool things going on in real life. Sometimes prospects come up, but then they disappear. My guess is when I finally get my resident's permit I'll actually start getting a real life... or when the weather is nice here for more than three days in any two month period. Honestly, I think we had a month straight of rain.

---

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

i quite agree. the world has more than enough people and no one really wants another one of me... especially not me.i just had a thought... would fundies support abortion if you could know from early on that your child was going to be a raging homosexual?

quote:

---

i just had a thought... would fundies support abortion if you could know from early on that your child was going to be a raging homosexual?

---

Ha ha ha. I read a science fiction story a few years ago in which there was a genetic test for homosexuality. In the story most gay men were Catholic because the Catholics were the only ones who would not even allow abortion for this case.

---

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

nice.glad i'm not the first to think of it.

Well, since I am of the belief that most fundies think homosexuality is a choice, I would have to answer with a resonding "no". I also think that while fundies would not support such an abortion, they would, however, make every attempt to "heal thy poor homosexual" (and of course fail).