Does Peer Pressure stifle the acceptance of the obvious?

Where do you feel this fear comes from?
Do you feel bad, or that you are upsetting some kind of balance when you do bad things? That is why religion sucks most of the time. If we follow the 2 golden rules, of loving God, and loving others as ourselves, then no shame or fear would happen. There should be no fear in your life when you come to know Jesus, not just imagine him in your mind.You are forgiven.Peer pressure for me, has never lead to anything good in my own personal life. I am glad that I "found God" for myself, and I am no longer affected by peer pressure, in my church or in society.
I am free.

Or they feel like God forgives them, if they are making a mistake. And that is fine. Ask yourself how you got into that sheltered world, then after asking yourself that read the next statement.Then take a moment and ask God, even if you don't believe in him
and the first thought that pops into your mind, will probably be his answer.

I apologize, I will read through the thread.I just responded to your original statement. I may or may not have constructed the faith around me, but I felt free in an instant, it was not a long process. Of course this does exclude me from responsibility of my actions. It does however release others from thiers against me. There in lies a journey in itself. To find out just what we feel guilty for. It can take your whole life to uncover what it is you feel guilty for or need to be free from, because sometimes it is buried in layers. But no matter what it is, you are forgiven, and you won't be held responsible for it.

I already knew that I would recieve an untruthful answer from someone like you.It's ok, you can kid youself all you want. You can either be happy for yourself because you feel free and void of any religious pressure in your life, or you can feel upset because your mind is so full of athiestic pressure, that you can not hear from God.Obviously if you are eating chicken salad, then you are not concentrating on any answer from God. Funny, I just got a vision of schraf standing at the pearly gates, and there is Jesus, with the biggest bowl of most delicious tasting chicken salad in his hands, and he is saying, you'll have to go through me, so start eating this, but only the bowl doesn't ever get empty. At first Schraf is like, hey this is great, but then after a few measly hours of eating the best chicken salad in her life, she gets tired of it, and realizes she no longer wants it. Suddenly there is a feeling of emptyness. Then she has to face Jesus, but Jesus says, its ok, come on in, laughing.

I can't really judge if living in a sheltered world is a good place for you or not. I do not know you, and even if I did, I would not know you like God knows you, so he is the only one who could answer that. You can ask him yourself, and you will recieve that answer.But my intial impression when I read the words "Are you suggesting that my sheltered world is not a good place to be?" was that you are person full of love, and it would be a shame to keep that from others in this world. That there is much to offer humanity, and there is a purpose in your life that you were designed for, and it's waiting to be fulfilled. That would involve shedding whatever it is that is keeping you sheltered, and being freed from that. I also realize that you may not in fact feel sheltered at all, and you were just kidding around. But who's to say we are sheltered, or not?I used to hide from Jehovah's witness also. I know answer the door, and say, if I am going to listen to you about your religion, then you will have to give me equal time and listen about mine. That right there usually sends them running.I feel they are afraid to hear the truth, so they avoid it, to go back into the sheltered world they have created for themselves. And they are sheltered, because if they weren't, they wouldn't have to run from my religion, or my thoughts about God. God is either truth, or he's not. The only way you find out is by putting your beliefs to the test every chance you get. If they don't hold up, then its time to re-evaluate.Logically I feel that if God designed us, then he designed us knowing right from wrong. But our experiences can bury that truth, so that we are no longer in touch with it. The bible even says that he wrote his laws on the minds and hearts of everyone. To succum to peer pressure is to bury those truths even further in you, and not follow your gut instincts. God created us to be leaders, and torch bearers of the light, and the truth, not followers, of darkness and lies.

Just for clarity, I do not feel that the darkside is atheism. I would be putting peer pressure on people if I subscribed to that. Everyone is where they need to be. The darkside is when people say and do things to you, to make you do what you really don't want to do. And in my belief, what God doesn't want you to do, church included. Church is full of judgemental people setting standards, and claiming who's going to get into heaven or not. Yes, absolutly that goes on in religion, and in every facet of life. It's our natural desire to be wanted, and accepted somewhere.But the problem is when you start comprimising yourself to be accepted. Lets make a facticsiuous story so I can help explain what I see in life. I am going to make it Godly, but you can apply the moral even if you don't believe.There once once a girl named.....schrafinator.... and she was a faithful church goer. She went because she believed in God by faith, and was trying to learn more about God. Shrafinator was a beatiful person inside with many things to offer the world, because she is a smart person, and is in a position to help those in need, friends, family, and strangers, a true calling from God. She doesn't even expect anything in return for her deeds. So one day after faithfully attending church for years, and giving money to said church, she decides she wants to take that gift that which is from God, and to use it to help people in the church, and outside the church. But she wants to set it up through the church leadership, and make it a "church thing". For what ever reason, the leadership doesn't think she is qualified to do it, or are not letting her do it for their own personal reasons, and tell her no. They don't even give her a logical reason why they won't let her do it.
Wham the harm is done. She should probably leave the church, but she has been programed for so many years that would be the wrong thing to do, and everyone she knows might not accept her anymore. So she buries her problems inside of her, and keeps going to church, because she doesn't want to upset God, or the community. Peer pressure. However when a problem like this goes unresolved, it doesn't go away, it goes deeper in you, and that exponetially adds itself to other problems in her life, until she can no longer stand it anymore, and then leaves the church, and leaves God. She now hates God, and the church, and has what we would call a mean streak in her, and is now unaproachable.What should have happened, is the church should have reconized her gifts from the Lord, and helped train her to use them to the greatest potential, so that the Lord may be gloryfied, and the kingdom of God could be further built up here on earth. Many people who would have been blessed by the works of scrafhinator, are now going to miss out, all because of peer pressure.Does peer pressure exist in the church? You bet. It's just like the rest of life, and peer pressure outside the church. Peer pressure changes who are, who your supposed to be.That is why we should only be listening to one person, and that is God. God would never make us do anything that we weren't designed to do. So right about now, you are thinnking of all the bad things that has happened in the name of the Lord, and all the religious wars that have happened. I say, just because it was claimed in the Lords name, doesn't make it from the Lord, when clearly it goes against everything Jesus tries to teach us. It's one way we find him, through his teachings. We aren't doing a ggod job of representing that in our churches, so we aren't finding God. I agree 100%. I feel its the churches job to accept people exactly they way they are. Love God, love others. We don't do that, it's very rare. We will never be truely free until that happens. Thats why I am here, to spread the news, and share what I have learned, and have some good discussion, and to learn from people like you. Almost, but there is a flaw in that reasoning. And that is, I am not requiring you to do anything. There is no condition for what I am trying to get across to people. I accept everyone just the way they are, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't. I don't see people as being on different levels, I see people as all being on the same level, no matter what they believe or do. I will say it's ok to not believe, because I understand what it takes to be an unbeliever. I believe God will judge us based on what we went through. I cannot possibly know what a person goes through in life, only myself, so I cannot judge them, or put them down, or make them feel like I am putting them down, just because they don't believe. The church I go to, feels the same way.
You do not show people God by pressuing them. If you are in a church and feel pressured, then get out. You can only show God to people by loving them. If you have God in you, and you have the light, and know the truth and the way, then God's love will be expressed through you, and people will see and feel that, then come to know the Lord in their own personal way. It's almost like magic, I witness it on a weekly basis.No peer pressure is low grade, its all bad. Love is the only thing we should be imposing on people in life. That's exactly what I am saying, again, I agree 100%.
No one on this earth has a right to say who's going to hell or not.

And that is why I say you are forgiven.

I know that already. It's up to her to decide if she is hearing from God or not. Not you or I. I believe in God, so I will continue to encourage someone as nice as schrafinator, to also hear from God. God speaks to us in at least 5 different ways. Thanks, its how I feel inside. Yes it does. Pressure exists from every walk of life. There is so much to learn about life, the universe and everything, that no one could know it all, myself included. We can only make decsions based on what we know and experience. We are the sum of our experiences. If schraf was mostly surrounded by atheistic people, and taught that in school, then she is programed to think there is no God. When in actuality there is whole bunch of things that she doesn't know about God, that keeps her from knowing God.I speak this from experience. In spite of the world around me, I found God, or should I say he called me, and know my relationship with everyone has now changed, and the pressure has shifted. But God has freed me from peer pressure, at least as far as I can tell. There are still things about myself that I need to learn. I never thought at any point in my life that I would go to hell either. That is why I know it is wrong to tell anyone, or think that anyone is going to hell. Judge the way you want to be judged. Jesus didn't come to judge the world, he came to save it. I didn't pressure at all. I wasn't even speaking to her. But when the Holy spirit moves in someones life, things like this will happen. The spirit is so strong, that it will bleed over to those who I wasn't even speaking too. That is because I am speaking in the spirit, by the power of the spirit, and not my own will but God's. I am just trying to be an obediant servant, and project the love God has for us. If people start praying, who wouldn't normally pray, then there are angels in heaven rejoicing. Schraf doesn't know it right now, but if she did in fact pray, then the angels are doing work on her, and the spirit is doing work on her right now. And I give God all the glory. I don't believe that for a second. I think you are doing a smashing job.

Actually, I am not mocking her. To be honest, what I felt the instant I read that was that, before she even started praying she was going to pay no mind to God, because she was convinced that there is no God.If I break her response down, we will see that she was infact mocking me, and mocking God. She did what I suggested?
What did she do?
She admitted to having a sheltered life? From what I can tell about schraf, her life is not sheltered, but very free. Lie #1If your eating chicken salad, then your not praying to God, your just eating chicken salad. lie #2Which question was she responding to?
I wasn't even talking to her, she's not the one feels sheltered.It's a joke.Or if she is telling the truth, then the response she got was representative of her life. Full of flavor, provide by the fine meats she uses. A very encouraging thought from God.But my gut feeling on this one is that she had a predetermined answer before she even asked. She could be missing out on revelation from God, and thats all I want to help people with, is to hear from God. You will know when its God or when it isn't. I won't be able to say when it is or isn't.If there is a God, wouldn't you like to hear from him?My culinary life is quite full, and I do appreciate fine chicken salad. I am quite the cook, if I do say so myself. If you all lived close by, I would have you over for diner. You all would be welcome in my house.Anthony

See my other responses for a more detailed explanation.

I rejoice that you feel that way, it is honest, thank you. I disagree. I think it is possible for an individual to know. It may not be possible for one to prove to another that God does exist. The only way is through love. Then do you relate to the fictitious story I posted earlier?
I do in some way. So do many people I know.
What was it that made you an unbeliever?
Did you only believe by faith? As I have been saying all along. The day I started feeling God, is either the day I went crazy, or the day God blessed me with his Holy presence. Which he continues to do till this day, on a daily basis, even when I am screwing up.I have been in here awhile, and my belief of what I feel to be God has been put to the test over and over again. I am still here. Which may not mean crap, but it is something. I mean, what the heck am I doing?
I've heard all the explanations. I came up with them myself way before it was ever suggested to me in here. None of them make any sense, or fit all the personal, just barely subjective, evidences. Nothing can explain the theory of no God to me. It is not preconceived either, because believing is new to me.It would also be one thing if I was telling myself all the lies, but there is 10x more outside influence to it, than what I could possibly make up in my own head.I will give one small what you might think wacked out example, of a just barely evidence.I went to a worship conference with the worship team from my church. We play Christian rock there. The whole conference was very powerful, and full of revelation. But on the first night, after it was all over, I left the hall and was walking through the hotel with my wife. I started laughing, then started laughing harder. I then felt I should go back to the conference hall, to see if anyone was still wround. When I got there, there was 35 people on the floor laughing uncontrollably. It was an overwelming feeling of joy, a feeling of love from the Holy Spirit. There was this guy, and he was praying for people. He didn't say any words, just laughed and prayed for them through laughter. The people would fall down laughing. (ok I know this all sounds crazy) But we were having fun, and felt nothing but joy. I have never really felt anything like this before, except when I was a child, I remained open minded about it all. The next 3 nights many more people went down laughing in the corner, groups of people, although I did not experience that again. No there was no drugs in the vent system, I didn't wake up with a hang over the next morning. This is all fine and good, and could be explained by many things. But the kicker was when I went back to my church that Sunday, we had felt so blessed by the whole event, that we started sharing about with other people. As I was talking to this one guy explaining everything, and before I got to the part about the laughter, he fell on the floor laughing for about 45 mins. Ok...... then I started telling another person later on, who did not see when the first guy had fell onthe floor, and again he fell on the floor laughing, then another later on again. I told none of them about the laughter. there were more things like this that did not involve laughing but other things. It was like almost as though whatever we experienced during that time at the conference, we carried it back with us, and it just magically transfered to those around us. There is no logical explnantion for it.
Call me a wacko, thats fine. But it was a most innocent joyful time of my life. I will never forget it. I fully realize that some of you may now look at me and say, he's off his rocker, he's a nut, but I am just being honest here. I am open to explanations for it. It happened, and you know what, I won't deny it. I have shared it with you, in hopes that you have figured some of my character and integerty out by now, that you just might not think I am crazy. I sure hope not. I pray right now that as you read this you would experience some sort of joy in your life, and there would be a release of a burden you may have, through the power of the Holy Spirit, and in Jesus's name. May you be free.

Ah ha!!!! Right, exactly. How can we love him if we don't know he exists either. But if you don't know him, then you can't love him, so the first commandment cannot be fulfilled in your life. That is one of the reasons I never felt as though I wold go to hell, or do I think you are either.

Hold on a minute. I am making the church out to be the bad guy there, not schraf. She did nothing wrong in the parable. That would only explain why I used to be the way I was, not the way I am now. It doesn't explain everything, like I said I have heard all the explnantions before. I asked myself that way before I ever got in here. Right, and what I an saying also is that the church needs to take a good long hard look at itself if that happens.I believe the church is going through that right now, and will continue to decline, until they start getting right.
Actually I feel they will never get it right (most churches) and a new church will arise when people such as yourself find God. You sound like you know more about who and what God should be than the churches, most people in this forum who don't believe do know who and what. I believe these are the people God wants to raise up, to set things straight.

When you come home, and your not sure if there is someone home, you call out, anyone home? Who are you talking to? Your calling out to see if anyone responds, not because you believe or don't believe anyones home.I am sick and tired of the BS statement "And you are saying that I should believe to get a response, so I can get evidence that there is a god."I never said that. That is what yo belive. It is a false belief. Either God is there, or he isn't. The bible says we must seek him, not he seeks us, even though he does. You don't have to believe in God to seek him. If he answers you one day, what you gonna do? Write it off as voices in your head, and then go see a shrink?Who are you talking to when your alone? Who are you sharing your thoughts with? Go ahead, say no-one. I challenge that. We all at one point or another have looked up at the sky in fustration, and said "God if your there.........." You didn't believe in him then did you?Get real.

Yes you do. You create your own god, yourself. You make all the rules, based on what you feel is right or wrong, from what society teaches you, and your own personal experience. You then worship it, by going out and doing that which you believe is ok to do, and then condem the things you don't think are ok.What I am saying is that, I don't know if you go to hell or not because of you doing that to yourself. I'll leave it up to God and you. I am hoping God judges us based on what we know, not what the bible says, because most of us don't even really understand the bible, or know God personally, but you do have a sense of right and wrong, and if you keep doing wrong to benefit yourself, for your own personal gain, I find that wrong.If you think in your heart that you are doing good, then God will acknowledge that.
If you know you are doing wrong, then he will also acknowledge that.Either way we can be forgiven, thanks to Jesus.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 11-05-2005 04:48 PM