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Author Topic:   Does Peer Pressure stifle the acceptance of the obvious?
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3976
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 151 of 268 (257809)
11-08-2005 1:29 PM


OK- reopened
The central theme is "peer pressure". All messages should have something to do with that central theme.
Adminnemooseus

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 152 of 268 (257957)
11-08-2005 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by nator
11-08-2005 9:06 AM


Re: peer pressure
You DON'T think skeptically nor scientifically about your religious experiences, rat, that much is clear.
quote:How so?
You immediately jumped to the "Godidit" conclusion WRT your laughing incident.
Let me explain. I only think that God is the best theory at this point in time. I will continue to observe myself, and my sirroundings to look for another explanation. I could find no logical explnantion fo it.
Did it ever ocur to you that just because YOU are not able to come up with a mundane explanation, doesn't mean that there isn't one?
Yes, explain it please.
You have been given several alternate explanations, but you have rejected all of them. I strongly suspect that you are going to reject any and all alternate explanations.
Untrue, Non of the explnantions even matched the story. All they were to me were examples of how people can't even gather facts correctly, to make a plausible theory to explain what happened. We can go over them, should I start another thread?
So, people rolling on the floor, laughing, has nothing to do with emotion?
Your just having had a spiritual experience with your fellow believers had nothing to do with emotion?
There are no emotions connected to your spiritual beliefs or faith at all?
You see, you didn't even get the story or the point of it. Should I start another thread.
Laughter is infectious.
In order for that to happen, one must see another person laughing. If you read the story, that never took place. Should I start another thread?
You have been given several alternate explanations, but you have rejected all of them. I strongly suspect that you are going to reject any and all alternate explanations.
Come up with one. So far the explnantions I got are equivelent to frogs jump because birds fly.
Well, MY point is that you, due to your bias, did a poor job of gathering facts, and you are do determined that God HAD TO be the explanation that you are blind to any other explanation.
Alright wrong again. Listen you don't know me. Most people are like that, but I am really not like that. God has given me a gift to look past my own desires, and wants, and other peoples desires wants , and wrongs to see what is really going on. That is why I don't get mad when people yell at me, I can see past stuff like reality.
But you aren't trying. You have already made up your mind, and then you have the gall to expect US to explain to you how God wasn't making everybody laugh.
Calm down schraf, I never seen you like this, maybe, just maybe you are wrong this time. I will start another thread, thats it. But you better join in, and everyones ability to gather facts and come up with a theory will be measured in here. So far, I can see why people are oblivious to things.
Oh please, you get backed into a corner and now you drag out the Devil?
Ok, I will answer you with your own words from the post I am responding too, and you can see just how narrowminded you are.
quote:
You have been given several alternate explanations, but you have rejected all of them. I strongly suspect that you are going to reject any and all alternate explanations.
Well, MY point is that you, due to your bias, did a poor job of gathering facts, and you are do determined that God HAD TO be the explanation that you are blind to any other explanation.
mmmmmmmm
*edit to fix bracket*
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 11-08-2005 08:00 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 9:06 AM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 153 of 268 (257960)
11-08-2005 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by nator
11-08-2005 9:23 AM


Re: peer pressure
quote:Science is only the study of what is absolutly true and real.
Incorrect.
Science is a method of inquiry used to discover and understand natural phenomena. It is the most reliable one we have found thus far.
Isn't that saying the same thing, just in other words? Or are you only rebuking it because it came from my mouth?
No, religion, being non-testable and relevatory in nature, is fraught with far, far more potential for error than science.
which one? Get my point?
Rat, are you really going to say stupid things such as the above this late in the game?
Come on, now.
I've been saying that since the begining, and I am sticking to my guns. I am just explaining it better now. Its not my fault that you can't see the similarities. Mike understood my point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 9:23 AM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 154 of 268 (257962)
11-08-2005 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by nator
11-08-2005 9:38 AM


Re: peer pressure
That is not how the scientific method works at all. The scientific method requires constant verification from outside sorces and parties. It is the opposite of what you describe, in fact.
Until its wrong, then everyone changes. Lets see.
Lets all think something is right, until it is wrong.
Religion, let one person think its right, until others find out its right too.
Different but similar. Close, but that is the difference, I understand. I never said it was exactly the same. I just pointed out many similarities between the 2.
The same is true for every possible subject of study. How does it follow that science and religion are the same just because it's impossible to know everything about either in a lifetime?
I don't understand you. You mean to tell me after you read all the similarities I pointed out, you claim that is the only one? Whats your point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 9:38 AM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 155 of 268 (257965)
11-08-2005 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by nator
11-08-2005 9:55 AM


Re: Science and Religion, two ways of cracking the nut
Please explain to me how the fact that we are not all working towards "righteous goals" (whatever that means) shows that the scientific method is biased in favor of anything other than the evidence?
Remember, you have to show that the METHOD is biased, because that is the claim you just made.
I did already. Tell me, what drives nost of science?
Money, and when there is money involved, it is biased, period.
Almost all science is money driven, riverrat?
Can you point to all of those wealthy scientists living it up in their vacation homes in Maui and in their penthouses in Manhattan?
Boy you are narrowminded. Think deeper, deeper, deeper, almost there, deeper, oops! Who pays their salaries schraf? Big business, military, unless there is a bunch of missionary scientist out there I don't know about.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....ok I take that back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 9:55 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:29 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 156 of 268 (257966)
11-08-2005 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by nator
11-08-2005 10:02 AM


Re: peer pressure
And that is the great, great difference between religion and science.
Don't you agree?
No, not at all. It goes back to science being unbiased. If it wasn't then Hiroshima, and Americans would give the same answer regarding the A-bomb we dropped.
Listen, my point of view is not an end all to the subject, but I am asking you to consider what I am saying. Take it, and compare it to life. Factor it in to your own personal scientific method about life, then make your conclusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:02 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:31 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 157 of 268 (257967)
11-08-2005 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by nator
11-08-2005 10:12 AM


Re: General question
Religion needs to stop meddling and interfering with science and then all will be well.
HA!
Whats good for the goose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:12 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:32 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 158 of 268 (258007)
11-08-2005 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by riVeRraT
11-08-2005 8:18 PM


Re: Science and Religion, two ways of cracking the nut
quote:
Boy you are narrowminded.
Rat, my husband is a scientist. I know dozens of scientists personally. I think I have a better idea of where most science funding comes from than you do.
The majority of university science funding comes from entities like the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. Tthese are publically-funded entities which are not administered by politicians, but by scientists.
quote:
Think deeper, deeper, deeper, almost there, deeper, oops! Who pays their salaries schraf? Big business, military,
Like I said, most university science funding is not corporate and not military, as far as I am aware.
And besides, all science, regardless of where the funding comes from, goes through the same peer review process.
Anyway, do you have some kind of evidence which shows that most scientists' salaries are paid by big businesses and the military rather than the universities most of them work for? If so, please present it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by riVeRraT, posted 11-08-2005 8:18 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 11-09-2005 7:21 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 159 of 268 (258008)
11-08-2005 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by riVeRraT
11-08-2005 8:20 PM


Re: peer pressure
quote:
It goes back to science being unbiased. If it wasn't then Hiroshima, and Americans would give the same answer regarding the A-bomb we dropped.
So, are you actually claiming that Japanese Physicists and American Physicists would disagree on how an atomic bomb works?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by riVeRraT, posted 11-08-2005 8:20 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 160 of 268 (258009)
11-08-2005 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by riVeRraT
11-08-2005 8:22 PM


Re: General question
Religion needs to stop meddling and interfering with science and then all will be well.
quote:
HA!
Whats good for the goose.
Please provide examples of scientists interfering and meddling in religious affairs, please.
Be specific.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by riVeRraT, posted 11-08-2005 8:22 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by riVeRraT, posted 11-09-2005 7:22 AM nator has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4023 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 161 of 268 (258028)
11-09-2005 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by riVeRraT
11-08-2005 8:33 AM


Re: peer pressure
If you wander the world and ask a question of the laws of science, you get the same result. No exceptions.
Ok, lets go ask the people of Hiroshima what they think of the atom bomb, then go ask an American.
Its not the laws of science I have the problem with, its what we do with them.
What happened at Hiroshima was mankind`s decision to use the forces of the laws of science. It has no connection. Either talk science or talk morality.
You exist--thanks to the laws of science governing your construction and functioning
You sense--via the laws of science
You drive to work--in a vehicle obeying the laws of science
You may operate machinery at work--built and performing through the laws of science.
Suppose you are injured--you are taken to a hospital that aids you with techniques and materials that obey the laws of science.
You come home and sit down to a meal provided by,preserved by, prepared by, even served via the laws of science.
And so it goes on----
Now tell me you consider science biased, equal to religion, even controlled by money. We are talking about the building blocks of the universe and the rules by which they perform, not some airy-fairy notion that science wanders in and out on some whim. Try violating a law of science and see how far you get.
As to errors in our understanding of the laws of science, may I point out we have only been seriously delving into these for the last couple of hundred years. Opposing the age of enlightenment, we have the big three religions which have had up to 2-3 millenia and still can`t agree. Now that`s bias.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 11-08-2005 8:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by riVeRraT, posted 11-09-2005 7:25 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5192 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 162 of 268 (258033)
11-09-2005 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by ohnhai
11-08-2005 9:22 AM


Re: peer pressure
searching for a picture of an albino raven I stubled across this awesome 404 error page
just in case they fix it here is the text
404 Error: Page Not Found
The page which you requested was not found on this server, or the server was instructed not to let you have it.
There could be a number of reasons for this error. The most common include:
* The Web Master for this page is a Lazy Git. The page which you requested may not have been built yet, and as such is not available for viewing.
* The page which you are looking for may have moved, or been deleted. If you are looking for anything from the directory /albums/, for example, that directory has been removed and its contents redistributed throughout the site. Your best bet is to try the Rogues' Gallery. Other pages may also have been refiled in different directories across the Shades-of-Night domain.
* The Web Master may have been working on these pages very late at night, and run out of caffeine. This causes frequent minor errors such as misspelled hypertext links, misplaced files, and mystery documents which disappear into thin air (or thinner electrons). You may have been directed to the wrong page.
Mea Culpa. I'll try not to do it again.
* You yourself may be working under the influence of too little caffeine, and have typed in the address incorrectly. Double check the address, and try again.
* The little spiders living in your computer are feeling neglected, and have decided to play tricks on you. Tell them you love them, beg with them, plead with them, and try reloading the page. Maybe they'll give you what you're looking for on your second attempt.
* You might simply not exist. This server regularly refuses service to people who do not exist. Double check your reality, and come back when you have the answer to life, the universe, and everything. (Are you really sure it's 42?)
If all else fails, you could try sending email to the webmaster, Nightshade@Shades-of-Night.com with a description of the problem you encountered, and perhaps the universe will see fit to serve you better in the future.
Thank you for your understanding, tolerance, and sense of humor.
ABE----
and just for completeness Here is a picture of a white raven
Enjoy
This message has been edited by ohnhai, 09-11-2005 07:37 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by ohnhai, posted 11-08-2005 9:22 AM ohnhai has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 163 of 268 (258045)
11-09-2005 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by nator
11-08-2005 10:29 PM


Re: Science and Religion, two ways of cracking the nut
The majority of university science funding comes from entities like the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. Tthese are publically-funded entities which are not administered by politicians, but by scientists.
That is only university science, a small segment in the science field. I never said all science is bad, or wrongly driven. But I bet you that there is a struggle with funds, and it can get political on a university level. There is a battle between what is right to study, and what is profitable. It happens in every facet of society, that is why I say we are limited to our own minds. Science isn't so non-biased as you think. Maybe in a perfect world. But then again in a perfect world, the 2 billion people who claim they are Christians, could easily feed the remaining 4 billion people, without batting an eye.
Anyway, do you have some kind of evidence which shows that most scientists' salaries are paid by big businesses and the military rather than the universities most of them work for? If so, please present it.
Military?
Drug companies?
That should cover it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:29 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by nator, posted 11-09-2005 5:50 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 164 of 268 (258046)
11-09-2005 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by nator
11-08-2005 10:32 PM


Re: General question
There is no evidence of a world wide flood?
Why are they even looking for that?
You think I am taking sides.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 10:32 PM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 165 of 268 (258047)
11-09-2005 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Nighttrain
11-09-2005 2:42 AM


Re: peer pressure
Yes, I agreee with all that, and if you were following, you would have noticed that, and that last post would have been unecssary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Nighttrain, posted 11-09-2005 2:42 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Nighttrain, posted 11-09-2005 7:27 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
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