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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consecution
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3883
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 286 of 300 (264763)
12-01-2005 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Adminnemooseus
11-30-2005 3:06 PM


More examples of "high noise, low signal" messages
Yaro and brennakimi, at the "Pakicetus being presented with webbed feet." topic.

Neither of those messages should have been posted.

You can scan upthread to see more dubious value input.

Adminnemooseus

Added by edit: I think that anyone is entitled to doing an irrelevant quip occasionally. That's OCCASIONALLY not OFTEN.

This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 12-01-2005 01:57 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-30-2005 3:06 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1211 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 287 of 300 (265526)
12-04-2005 6:12 PM


Why ?
www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=5&t=641&m=130#130 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=5&t=641&m=130#130">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=5&t=641&m=130#130

Crashfrog was suspended for the above link - why ?

Director made a mistake.

Ray


  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2157 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 288 of 300 (265971)
12-06-2005 2:27 AM


Froggie
Is Crash still suspended, or is he taking a break?
  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 300 (267990)
12-12-2005 12:12 AM


The Janus Fiction
Call it the "Janus Conceit": the fiction that admin post as different "personas", independant of each other and not influenced by each other, even if an admin mods a thread he himself is participating in.

Nobody is suggesting that they are different people. However, they are different roles. To err is human, but we expect those acting in an administrator role to attempt to be superhuman.

No, they're not different roles. It's the same person. And to expect the rest of us to adhere to this fiction is insulting and rude.

I remember how it started, you know. Minnemooseus started it, if I recall correctly. It was a cute conceit in his writing, a way to make moderation a little more interesting and make it appear "fair" when the Moose moderated threads in which he was participating.

But apparently it caught on. The newest outrage is that, apparently, the admins can demand that the rest of us play the same game, and that's taking it too far. Immature? Inappropriate, as I was accused by Jar? What's inappropriate is the suggestion that an admins moderation doesn't reflect on them as a person and a poster, and vice-versa.

If we're going to "anoint" admins from the general posting populace, by fiat by the rest of the admins, then its inconsistent, in fact, to assert that a poster's bad habits don't reflect on the quality of their moderation. If that's true, why were they picked to be a moderator in the first place?

As it is, the policy simply ensures that the squeakiest posters with the worst habits will ascend to adminhood, placing their bad behavior above reproach and allowing them even greater power to exact unfair retribution against their opponents.

I call on the admins to voluntarily reject this fiction. To voluntarily abstain from moderating threads in which they have participated. And I call for the procedures for dealing with moderator abuse to be developed and made explicit.

Either that, or if moderators suddenly have a basis to insist that an admin's behavior as a poster doesn't reflect on their suitability to be a moderator, then I'd like to see the forum rule that makes that explicit. There seems to be an increasing number of such rules, these days.


Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Adminnemooseus, posted 12-12-2005 3:50 AM crashfrog has not yet responded
 Message 298 by Admin, posted 12-12-2005 1:02 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3883
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 290 of 300 (268048)
12-12-2005 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 289 by crashfrog
12-12-2005 12:12 AM


Re: The Janus Fiction
I remember how it started, you know. Minnemooseus started it, if I recall correctly. It was a cute conceit in his writing, a way to make moderation a little more interesting and make it appear "fair" when the Moose moderated threads in which he was participating.

Percy was the first to adopt having a second admin name. lbhandli was the second admin, who fell into obscurity. I was the third admin, and I too adopted a second admin name. It seems like a nice way to try to seperate the non-admin messages from the admin messages, although some of the admins tend to also often moderate while still using the non-admin name.

To voluntarily abstain from moderating threads in which they have participated.

It's pretty tough to follow topics you are not interested in. And if you are interested in a topic, you tend to some degree to also participate in your non-admin mode.

By the way, my main computer is still pretty FOBAR. Had an old Win95 machine laying around, so I thought I'd give it a try.

Adminnemoose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by crashfrog, posted 12-12-2005 12:12 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2075 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 291 of 300 (268115)
12-12-2005 10:39 AM


How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
Seems like he snuck into the Packitus thread, the PunkEek thread, the thread all about randman (probably appripriate), and now the Education thread. What was a really great OP with lots of potential is now mired in, guess what, more about Haeckel.

Not to say that some discussion about Haeckel might be appropriate as it is used in education but somehow I can go inbetween that thread and the Haeckel Pt2 thread and the Great debate about Haeckel and read all about the same thing.

In short I am going to formally request that we create a new forum called Randman's Haeckel Blog and move all of the appropriate threads where Haeckel was allowed to be on topic despite promising and hopeful OPs to the contrary. That way those of us who no longer give a rats ass about Randman's pet conspiracy theory can know to stay away from it.

It just seems that we may need to borrow a phrase from medicine. Not to say that I think this applies to all of our wonderful (truthfully and without cynicism) admins need it.

"Moderator, Moderate thyself!"


No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Wounded King, posted 12-12-2005 11:01 AM Jazzns has not yet responded
 Message 293 by nwr, posted 12-12-2005 11:27 AM Jazzns has not yet responded
 Message 294 by Trixie, posted 12-12-2005 11:35 AM Jazzns has not yet responded
 Message 295 by BuckeyeChris, posted 12-12-2005 11:37 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

Wounded King
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 292 of 300 (268122)
12-12-2005 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by Jazzns
12-12-2005 10:39 AM


Re: How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
Unfortunately I fear that in no short time this would lead to all of the science threads being engulfed by the new forum.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Jazzns, posted 12-12-2005 10:39 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 293 of 300 (268133)
12-12-2005 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by Jazzns
12-12-2005 10:39 AM


Re: How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
In short I am going to formally request that we create a new forum called Randman's Haeckel Blog and ...

Wouldn't you also need
  • Randman's pakicetus blog;
  • Randman's missing transitionals blog;
  • Randman's poofing blog; and, maybe
  • Randman's non-random mutation blog


    What shall it profit a nation if it gain the whole world, yet lose its own soul.
    (paraphrasing Mark 8:36)
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 291 by Jazzns, posted 12-12-2005 10:39 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

  • Trixie
    Member (Idle past 1869 days)
    Posts: 1011
    From: Edinburgh
    Joined: 01-03-2004


    Message 294 of 300 (268137)
    12-12-2005 11:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 291 by Jazzns
    12-12-2005 10:39 AM


    Re: How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
    First it was an infestation of whales, now it's a plague of Haeckels. Every bloody thread that bloody randman bloody participates in bloody degenerates into bloody Haeckel. I'm sick of bloody Haeckel. These bloody instances are, in most bloody cases, bloody OFF TOPIC!!! And this is a bloody Admin!

    How the hell is he going to keep everyone else on topic when he's the main culprit at the moment in dragging interesting threads OFF TOPIC? And how will everyone else react to Adminrandman's admonitions to stay on topic after he has singlehandedly managed to butcher so many topics with his fetish about Haeckel?

    Can another Admin please step in and stop randman bringing up Haeckel in just about every thread he participates in? It's becoming boring and soul-destroying to have to wade through reams and reams of Haeckel garbage to find on topic posts in threads that I have an interest in. I don't think I'm the only one.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 291 by Jazzns, posted 12-12-2005 10:39 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

    BuckeyeChris
    Inactive Member


    Message 295 of 300 (268138)
    12-12-2005 11:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 291 by Jazzns
    12-12-2005 10:39 AM


    Re: How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
    I completely agree with Jazzns post, and that topic is the reason I popped my head into this thread. I think it's deplorable that you guys allow randman - who's an admin - to sidetrack any thread he likes down his topic-de-jour. Haeckel, at the moment. I further agree with Crash that playing make-believe that admin-roles and poster roles are 100% independent personas is kind of unrealistic, especially when it's obvious that they are the same person, such as Randman/AdminRandman. It's acceptable to a point, but come on now - you can't have the most offensive posters as admins and just expect people to not react. There should at least be some effort toward examples being set by admins regardless of which name they are logged in under.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 291 by Jazzns, posted 12-12-2005 10:39 AM Jazzns has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 296 by Omnivorous, posted 12-12-2005 11:58 AM BuckeyeChris has not yet responded

    Omnivorous
    Member (Idle past 1131 days)
    Posts: 3808
    From: Adirondackia
    Joined: 07-21-2005


    Message 296 of 300 (268144)
    12-12-2005 11:58 AM
    Reply to: Message 295 by BuckeyeChris
    12-12-2005 11:37 AM


    Re: How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
    While I am also weary of the Haeckeler antics, I have mixed feelings about the issue. I am as guilty as the next person of allowing myself to be dragged off-topic by his Haeckeling, but it is difficult to allow the mischaracterization to stand unchallenged.

    It's kind of a one-trick pony thing: randman has latched onto it as a way to imply pervasive scientific fraud, and I believe he does this to play to the gallery. Since he asserts that evolution and its proponents are fraudulent, and Haeckel is his favorite "evidence", it is superficially difficult to insist that any mention is off-topic.

    It is annoying, but ultimately, I think, self-defeating in terms of the impression it makes on the surfing reader. Perhaps we could draft the best reply to the charge (Haeckel essay, anyone?), then just link to it every time he Haeckels, but otherwise ignore the distraction.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 295 by BuckeyeChris, posted 12-12-2005 11:37 AM BuckeyeChris has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 297 by robinrohan, posted 12-12-2005 12:09 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

      
    robinrohan
    Inactive Member


    Message 297 of 300 (268147)
    12-12-2005 12:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 296 by Omnivorous
    12-12-2005 11:58 AM


    Re: How many Haeckel threads do we have now?
    every time he Haeckels

    "Haeckel" has become a verb!


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 296 by Omnivorous, posted 12-12-2005 11:58 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

    Admin
    Director
    Posts: 12600
    From: EvC Forum
    Joined: 06-14-2002
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 298 of 300 (268175)
    12-12-2005 1:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 289 by crashfrog
    12-12-2005 12:12 AM


    Re: The Janus Fiction
    My own observations indicate that Admins have widely varying degrees of success in objectively moderating threads in which they also participate. The moderator guidelines advise against the practice.

    At the next board meeting, retiring inactive and infrequently active Admins will be a topic. I'll be proposing about 10 moderating actions per month as the threshold.

    Another of my proposals that I'll put on the agenda is having members vote for Admins. Term of service would be 1 year before facing reelection, and if we institute removal of Admins for low activity levels, then the term of service could be shorter.

    These are just agenda items at this point, not plans or committments.


    --Percy
    EvC Forum Director

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 289 by crashfrog, posted 12-12-2005 12:12 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

      
    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 3062 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 299 of 300 (268212)
    12-12-2005 2:03 PM


    On Haeckel...
    If you are talking about educational standards or evos use of data, Haeckel's depictions being used so long is relavant.

    What is not relevant, which evos continually resort to, is bashing the Bible, bashing religion, bashing George Bush and the neocons or any number of arguments evos repeatedly trot out on nearly every thread on this forum.

    The simple fact is there are not that many IDers and Creationists posting here. So you may grow a little tired of hearing from some of the same people. My suggestion would be to realize that this thing works both ways, and if you want to discuss points on a scientific basis, attacks of creationist's or IDers motives that are unsubstantiated, or on any number of false claims bandied about, does not help.

    At least when I bring up Haeckel's drawings and claiming a single phylotypic stage as accurate, I am appealing to real scientific claims and practices, not fantasies that people reject ToE because they want to install a theocracy or some such.


    AdminJar
    Inactive Member


    Message 300 of 300 (268219)
    12-12-2005 2:12 PM


    And with that, the sun sets on yet another thread
    Mods, you gotta change your sigs again.
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