Why Atheists don't believe

That's from the torah which was constructed sometime between 500bc and 200bc - unless you have some starling evidence of it being e-mailed to china I fail to see the relevance.All that quote shows is that the golden rules also appeared in the book that the bible was eventually developed out of.... It in no way shape or form negates the point that lots of people said the same thing as Jesus (which was the original point you made that was challenged) and many of them said it before him. You can also find evidence of the golden rule in even earlier texts (some from Egypt for example).

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Hillel the Elder (Talmud, Shabbat 31a).

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"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary."

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Edited by CK, : Typos.

You say you don't have time to answer Crashfrog's query - yet you wish to continue to edge around the subject with rather weak analogues.

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All you have here is someone (me) who shouts over the wall from an adjoining room "God is in here - come have a look" You don't have to believe me to come and have a look.

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But most of us have been for a look - the room is empty, there is nothing there.Instead of wasting our time with those low-quality circular answers - how about having a decent stab at providing a case of the alternative you wish to suggest to empirical evidence?Start a separate thread articulating your case.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Yes but she is saying things that be checked and are not out of the realms of the possible. You, by the very nature of your faith, are asking us to believe things that are untestable, unseeable and impossible to check upon.Moreover, those are not equal things - your example is closer to Kong's other statement.

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If she came home and said she had had tea with the queen, I wouldn't accept it first hand for example, since this seems quite unreasonable.

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Except in your case - it's "I had dinner with the queen on the moon and then Elvis gave me a ride home in his rocket ship".It's a matter of degree and plausibility.

Yes you are asking to believe in God by extension of your own experience.

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I didn't ask him if he would believe in God based on what I say. I asked him if he believes that I am experiencing what I think I am.

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isdifferent from

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I didn't ask him if he would believe in God based on what I say. I asked him if he believes that I believe that I am experiencing what I think I am.

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The first most atheists will say "no", the second most atheists will say "sure if makes you happy, whatever".Edited by CK, : Typo - Atheist.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Well yes? but that's not what you asked. You asked if we believed you has an experience.I believe you think it's real - I don't have any evidence it's real and my own experience tells me that it's likely false but if it makes you happy - so what?

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Agreed, at least until one of us sees a bonafied miracle, where there is no chance of subjectivity.

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I have heard of one from a good friend, but I have yet to see the paper work on it.

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The first part again is purely subjective, the second is well... meaningless.

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Yes, I understand your point, but there are instances where I have seen the whole room filled with people, and the spirit started moving, and everyone was on the floor, even by-standers who weren't even paying attention to what was going on. Then a whole bunch of people were converted at the same time.

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Means nothing - I've convinced people there are ghosts in the room, done cold readings etc - people are sadly easy to fool. We had a show here recently where a fella called Darren Brown went to the states and got people to believe just what you describe - he did it to show how easy it is to get people to buy into such concepts.

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I can say with authority that, yes, a good percentage of atheist do not believe in stuff without evidence, at least of some sort.

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Problem is it's just not true - if there was a "good percentage" of atheists who "do not believe in stuff without evidence" then they would be unable to function in the real world.Let's take a simple example - when my significant other says she is going off to work - how do I know she is? she could be off meeting another boyfriend?If someone tells me they went on holiday to Spain - what evidence do I have besides their word? Why am I likely to doubt them?If they tell me they went to Spain and helped the King of Spain defeat a terrorist cell, I'm not as likely to believe that without further evidence!If I eat out and they tell me the chicken is an organic chicken - what evidence do I have besides them telling me that? Am I going to leap up and ask to inspect the kitchens, take blood/cell samples? No of course I am not!An even more simple example - if I ask someone for directions and they give them to me, a normal person does not suddenly demand proof or evidence that the directions are correct.It's not a either/or - it's a complex case by case thing. At best you can say "do not believe in stuff that sounds highly unlikely without evidence". Edited by CK, : No reason given.

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Either way, your saying that you believe the directions that were given to you are 100% correct? Will you drive away from that person knowing 100% that you will arrive at the proper destination? OR will you be driving with an uncertainty, and hoping that person wasn't a flake and sent you 20 mins. out of your way?

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That must be something cultural about America - here I'd just assume the directions were correct. It would never occur to be to think "oh my god what if he's a flake and sending me the wrong way!"

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The point is, there is no reason to question any of this stuff, because it just doesn't matter. That doesn't mean you believe it with 100% certainty.

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Wait - where did 100% certainty come from? Who mentioned that? Besides you?I'm honestly not sure where this conversation is going anymore or even what you are trying to get at.My position -* I take many things on faith and my previous experience in that context and with that person.* The more complex and important an issue to me the more likely I am going to search out addition evidence or information.* The concept of Gods is not that important to me and I find no evidence of their existance or any reason to take their existance on faith.Edited by CK, : No reason given.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Yes but RR's point was that "Many Atheists don't believe stuff without evidence".The point is - I could go and get evidence but I don't - I take it on faith. All of us take multiple things on faith every day without requiring "evidence" from the people we interact with.The fact that Evidence isavailable seems to be irrelevant to the point that I *thought* he was trying to make. Having said that - I'm increasingly confused what it is he IS trying to say I think I'll stop at the point as I cannot actually be bothered to work out what it is we ARE talking about