|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Is morality absolute or relative? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar... Do you acknowledge that absolute truth exists?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Show me a moral absolutist, and I will show you a moral relativist who absolutely wants to impose his relative morals on everybody else. I think you miss the point guys... morals and law are actually synonomous. Let me put it to you this way. You can disagree and say that it is only my opinion, but then you really only prove that that is because the truth is not relative... my opinion and yours is irrelavant. The truth speaks for itself. Consider carefully:Laws themselves are not necessarily absolute, but the ideal of law is. Every political statement has at its foundation, a moral and therefore theological foundation in righteous sovereignty that is the ideal of law. So the idea of church and state being separate is as preposterous, as the idea of separating an atom from its nucleus.
If the state is not founded in God, then the state has imposed itself as God. In the same way, if a man is not founded in God, then that man has imposed himself as God over his own life. The Church can fall into this same malaise and all of these have happened at one time or another, and all will continue to happen within their respective times and temples. Who is the fanatic; the man who creates his own foundation, or the man who humbles himself before his Lord? Maybe neither deserves the label of fanatic. I think the true fanatic is the one who takes matters into his own hands, not the one who argues for reason and respects others beliefs. I only presume to argue in the name of reason and objectivity.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
jar... Do you acknowledge that absolute truth exists? Well, frankly that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. I know that there are some things that are so well supported that they approach near certainty, like anyone born will die, like evolution happened, like there has not been a global flood in atleast the last 600,000 years, like night will follow day. But what does that have to do with morality and whether it is absolute or relative? Can we stick to the subject? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
near certainty Very nice! So your saying that everything you just said is not necessarily true? But that, with what you almost know with certainty, you will bank on? Is that a fair assesment? If so, Since you lack certainty and my Lord spoke with fire and claimed to be certainty, i'm gonna bank on Him. Because if your right, I got nothing to lose but this stinking life. If He's right, i got all of eternity to pay for denying what was the most obvious to me... That I am indeed a sick man in need of a healer.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I think you miss the point guys... morals and law are actually synonomous. Sorry but that is just another unsupported assertion. It is also one that is demonstrably false. What is the moral basis for a 30MPH speed limit. How is 30MPH more moral than 31MPH, or 30.5MPH? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What does any of that have to do with whether morality is absolute or relative?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I think you miss the point guys... morals and law are actually synonomous. Look, this is all nonsense. We know from game theory - a branch of mathematics - that it's more advantageous for a group to mutually cooperate than to compete against each other. In other words, if you share the pie instead of fight for it, everybody gets more pie. From this simple observation, it should be trivial to realize that societies enact laws not because they're duplicating some absolute moral precept inherent to the universe, but for the entirely prosaic reason that it's better for everyone to have laws instead of not having them. Laws are useful, whether they're enacted by the conventions of government or even enshrined into "morals." Societies that have them are more effective than those that don't. No surprise, then, that we see that all societies have laws. And apparently so many people don't have enough sense to do what's best for everybody that a lot of laws have to be couched in terms of "God sayz so" and "it's absolute" or else they won't follow them. Oh, well. No finite set of moral laws can successfully encapsulate all possible situations and moral choices. That observation more than anything else proves that "absolute morality" is a myth.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Sorry but that is just another unsupported assertion. It is also one that is demonstrably false. What is the moral basis for a 30MPH speed limit. How is 30MPH more moral than 31MPH, or 30.5MPH? This is unbelievable! Is it that difficult to see the point.... I did not say that a speed limit sign is absolutely true... I am saying that it implies that it is, and that's why the law breaker hates it so much... It is precisely why you hate the ten commandments.. because you are a liar, an adulterer, a God hater, and otherwise insulant arrogant bastard like the rest of us...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
but for the entirely prosaic reason that it's better for everyone to have laws instead of not having them. Thanks for playing Crash. I missed you man... It's better for everyone??? My GOd in heaven if that's not an assumed absolute then I never saw one... Do you guys really ever examine your thinking? Is it that hard to see what I'm saying?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Laws are useful, whether they're enacted by the conventions of government or even enshrined into "morals." Societies that have them are more effective than those that don't. My head is going to explode! Useful??? More Effective??? For what assumed purpose that is then the absolute meaning of life?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
the absolute meaning of life My considered opinion is that there ain't no such thing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, what does anything in your message have to do with whether or not morality is absolute or relative. And frankly, you do not know what you are talking about. I do not hate GOD, in fact, I am a Christian, have started a church, personally helped build two churches and taught Sunday school for both adults and kids.
Making unfounded statements like you do add nothing to your message. The issue is whether morality is absolute or relative. If you position is that it is absolute then you need to present evidence or argument of why you think it is absolute. Pick something that you think you can support and then stick to trying to make your best possible case. Quite misrepresenting what people say. Where have I said I hate the ten commandments? If you believe I'm a liar, then show where I have lied or apologize immediately (by the way, calling another memeber here a liar, even if true, is grounds for getting banned). If I'm an adulterer, bring on the proof. If you don't have such proof, then apologize. Stick to the topic. It is your topic. Is morality absolute or relative? Did Jesus say that if your ass fell in a crack on the sabbath you should go pull it out instead of waiting 'till the next day? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
It's better for everyone??? What, you find that a contentious statement? I would think you would find it pretty obvious that people don't like to live in chaos. Isn't that exactly what your side tells us will happen if there's no morals?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
My head is going to explode! Genius can do that, sometimes. Try to concentrate more on responding to points raised and concentrate less on simply repeating the statements of your opponents with a bunch of question marks at the end.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you hate Santa Claus? What about Krishna? The Great Galactic Goat?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024