Atheism, a dangerous idea?

Yes, but Christians DO use the bible to back racism. They also use it to back opposition against abortion and stem cell research, to fight teaching evolution and preventing vaccination against cervical cancer etc.On the other hand Christians use the bible to fight racism, to support pro-choice, to support stem cell research, to teach science, and to argue for medical breakthroughs.So it seems, by you own admission that we should be scared of Christians since we cannot now what moral standards they follow.The point is, that I am sure that you believe that the moral lessons you learn from the bible are absolutely true, and they set a standard for all Christians, indeed for all of mankind, but the Christian living down the street thinks the same but disagrees with you on many points.For those of us who do not believe that there are any absolute moral standards (and this is not all atheists, nor only atheists who hold this position), there is no difference between atheists morality as a group and theists, or indeed Christians as a group. We ALL differ from each other on minor an major points with regards to moral questions, and we all share many more moral standards./SorenEdited by kongstad, : Bad splleing

I have been told on many occasions that salvation is given solely by God, and by his grace alone.Simply by believing in the risen Christ, this grace shall be given. we are all sinners, and can do nothing to earn our way into heaven.You seem to disagree, but do you really mean to say that the many many christians who hold this belief are not christians?If not, then your argument falls apart: A christian would know that being just and not sinning would not help him achieve grace - so there is no reason for a christian - that is one who believes in the risen christ - to act morally. His grace is independent of his actions, and only dependant on his belief. that was I believe one of the points - if not the central point - of Martin Luthers epiphany, giving birth to the protestant doctrines, and the evangical sects of today.So only christians who believe in grace through actions comply with your argument, but then again a lot of atheists believe that they should never do wrong, just like the catholic, so the catholics faith in a God is irrelevant to his morals.

So the whole point is that christians all have their own moral systems, but they like to justify them by refrencing a book.Atheists have their own moral systems too, but they just justify them without referencing a book.And this makes atheism dangerous?Its abundantly clear that the good book can support any moral stance, so for heathens like me its very hard to see why atheists should be singled out as dangerous?Anyway you actually can discuss ethics without using the bible, Muslim holy text or The tales of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.We do it all the time, discussing the consequences of actions, and claiming them to be wrong based on the particulars. If we disagree we can argue, until we reach the basic points we disagree on, and then either convince the other on our point of view or just agree to disagree.Nothing is added by referring to holy texts, or Gods, as can be seen by the simple fact that even among the same christian denomination, people disagree on the most basic moral tenets.

Either you are trying to change the subject, or I am just to stupid to follow you.Are you claiming if no civilization holds a particular worldview (or in this case, is missing a theological dimension), then the worldview, or lack of theological dimension is dangerous?Please elaborate?

So you disagree with the other christians here?Atheism is not dangerous?You see most atheists, like most people, detest cruel acts, Most people act morally because they want to, and only psychopaths do so only because of fear of discovery, or the sanctions of authority.Edited by kongstad, : splleing

So claiming to be a christian is not enough to assure that people do not scare you. You must withhold your judgement until you can observe peoples acts? So what is the difference between people claiming to be christians and people claiming to be atheists?In both cases, you must withhold judgement until you can evaluate their actions, so their professed beliefs, or lack of beliefs, should not logically have an effect on how you judge them! Well if he claims to be against prostitution you can judge him, and if you believe prostitution is wrong, you can judge him. Do you really feel that people can do whatever they want? Ok, but looking around I see christians using the bible to defend homosexual marriage, and to condemn it. To defend the right to choose, and to condemn it. To defend wars and to condemn them. To condemne universal healthcare and to defend it. To defend free speech and to condemn it. To assert the equal value of women, and to reject it. To defend rascism, and to reject it.But other than you feel that christians share which core values?In my oppinon all your arguing just leads to the fact that you must judge each person on his own, and that a persons faith, or lack of it, in no way tells you how this person will act.

Yes I understand what you are saying, but I still don't get it. Yes I'll grant you that Well here we part waysAs it has been established in this thread, a christian trying to be a christian does in no way say what the morals of the person is.We have established that christians cannot agree one when killing is justified and when it isn't, whether abortion is allowed or not etc.But even more fundemental, you just repeated that we should judge the person claiming to be a christian >>on his actions<<, so it is not his claim of theism that makes him not dangerous, but in stead his actions.Now if you know of a persons actions, then the persons beliefs are not fundemental to this judgement. Do you belief the persons actions to be just? Then you can judge the person to be just. What does a professed belief in christ change?So I do not understand what you have to fear from atheists, that you could not fear from a person claiming to be a christian!Have you any experience with atheists behaving in ways that make you fear them in particular?I know of christian killers, rapists and pedophiles, but that doesnt make me fear people claiming to be christians.Furthermore I do not know why you wouldnt judge an atheist? You have no expectations as to how a persons should act?I expect all people to behave with acceptance and tolerance in general, and to try not to knowingly harm others unnecessarilly. And I hold people to these standards whatever their religion or lack of. And generlly, they live up to this.Atheists no less than theists.