boasts of Athiests II

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Could we tone down the moralistic flavor a little bit? We are trying to discuss the nature of human experience, not the best or most mature way to live.

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Moralistic? How so? I have made no moral statements whatsoever, only statements of cause and effect related to one's expectations of life.The nature of human experience is directly affected by how one perceives the Universe and their expectations of life.Besides, you are constantly spinning everything remotely positive anyone says about life into as bleak and negative a light as you can.I think I am coming back in equal measure to what you are putting out.Like I said, it is all about perceived expectations, which we all choose to make.

Now wait just a minute, Jar. According to the doctrine of Political Correctness, which I'm sure you embrace with gusto, you are not supposed to pity me. You are "dehumanizing" me. How dare you?Not that I mind. I rather enjoy being pitied from time to time. True, but it has the advantage of being real. Thank you. I feel the same way about you. You have gone through life without experience, cloaked in a garb you call "Christianity" but which actually has nothing to do with that stern old religion. Between the two, I think I prefer the stern stuff. It at least has some meat in it. You dine on candy.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

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True, but it has the advantage of being real.

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Onarism disgused as "keeping it real" is never an attractive quality.Yes we all get it, we get it, you've convinced us all. We are deluded but you are in touch with the truth.We all get it.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

NO listing in my dictionary. The closest I got was "onanism." That means masturbation.What does it mean?

Everything I say is merely my opinion. Argue against it if you don't agree.

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Onarism disgused as "keeping it real" is never an attractive quality.

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Yes we all get it, we get it, you've convinced us all. We are deluded but you are in touch with the truth.

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We all get it.

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If you meant "onanism"...ROTFLMAO!!!!Perfect.

And your evidence for that is? Dancing goal posts anyone? Then it's likely you have much to enjoy. As opposed to the world I inhabit? Again, all I can say is how utterly sad. Yet more dancing goal posts?And you have evidence for that?If you bothered to look at the posts made by me in both of these threads you will find they are filled with experience. But because you are so pitiful, I am going to grace you with a secret.To find the awsome and wondrous beauty of nature and life, you need to look. It is not hard, but it does take effort and most of all, practice. Let me give you an example or three.I just got back from a run to the store, needed some burger, doggie bisquits and sodas.As I pulled out of the garage there was a dove in full display strutting out in the middle of the street, and along the edges, struted about a brazillion females just watching the show.As I walked up and down the isles of the store, there was a lady ahead of me who had a child in the basket. The child was reading the labels on a box of cereal, pointing out each letter of each word with a chubby finger as she sounded them out. As they stopped I moved out around, and as I passed I told her she was doing great reading."I'm going to REAL school this year!", she said and the pride and joy in her voice was reflected in the smile on her mothers face.When I came out to the car, a gentleman was loading groceries into his car right beside me. We finished at about the same time and took our carts to the little return pen. I thanked the guy for bringing the cart to the return area and he said "I know. Folk leave them all over the place" as he pointed out several just left in parking places."Let's gettem", I said.And he and I ran about the parking lot collecting carts like school kids. Brought them back and even inserted them to make it easy for the kids to take them back inside. It was fun, took maybe five minutes and totally unneccesary, but still for awhile there we were working together and both of us enjoyed the moment.Reality is what you make it. If you wish to live in a dull gray shadow world, fine, that is your option.It is only that way though by choice. Wonder and awe and love and beauty and excitement and joy and hapiness are also there if you but accept them and work a little.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, I do, I certainly do. One of my many enjoyments is onanism, a daily ritual of mine. Without vanity I may say, I'm probably the most onanistic person on my block.I don't mean to boast, but sometimes the wonder of masturbation is too much to keep to oneself.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

Bestpostever.

Yes, I agree. But the point is, which definition of reality corresponds to our experience of it? I understand Jar's "niceness"
in some ways, but in other ways he is not so nice. I understand that we want to be "positive": so do I.But I also want to know things, to figure things out. Is that so terrible? I know that many people have good intentions. I know that people want to be happy. So do I.I know that you enjoy your life, and I am very happy that you got out of that negative stuff you experienced earlier. I have been one of the lucky ones. I always had it easy. But not everybody did.I'm not trying to be negative; I'm trying to understand the nature of human experience.

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But the point is, which definition of reality corresponds to our experience of it?

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In the way you are using the word "reality", the "reality" we choose corresponds to our perception of the experience.Perception is everything, robin.I perceive my mother's behavior in an entirely different way now compared to when I was 20. She acts in pretty much the same way; behaves even worse in some respects. She does not have the same negative effect upon me that she used to because I choose to not let it affect me. She has no power over my feelings of self-worth at all, but she used to have all the power. I taught myself how to change my perception of her, of myself, and of life itself.

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I understand Jar's "niceness"
in some ways, but in other ways he is not so nice.

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I agree. This is irrelevant to the discussion in my mind.

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I understand that we want to be "positive": so do I.

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See, I don't get any sort of impression that you want to be positive about much of anything. At all. Truly.

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But I also want to know things, to figure things out. Is that so terrible?

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No.But finding awesomeness and wonder and joy in life doesn't mean that you ignore or avoid despair, misery, and sadness.Nor does it mean that you do not try to figure things out.It only means that you allow yourself to experience a full spectrum of emotions.You seem determined to cynically reject any simple enjoyment of the Universe, and even become "annoyed" and incredulous when people say they find such enjoyment, and find it quite regularly. I'd say that says more about you than it does about anyone else.

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I know that many people have good intentions. I know that people want to be happy. So do I.

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Not only do they want to be happy, they actually are happy.

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I know that you enjoy your life,

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Oh, you believe me now. That's good of you.

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and I am very happy that you got out of that negative stuff you experienced earlier. I have been one of the lucky ones. I always had it easy. But not everybody did.

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Maybe you need to learn to work harder, then, to find contentment.

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I'm not trying to be negative; I'm trying to understand the nature of human experience.

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But you do spin everything in the most depressing, negative way possible, and come close to mocking the happiness of others because it seems as though you just cannot believe that people actually live like that.That is the impression you give. Truly.

Was there something in that post, Message 49 that was not reality?Was there something in that post, Message 97 that did not correspond to experience?Edited by jar, : fix mistaken link

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I always believed you. I just thought you exaggerated a tad.Excellent post, Schraf.Thanks for the thoughtful response.I'm sure we can understand each other in due time.

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Onarism

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NO listing in my dictionary. The closest I got was "onanism."

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Try onerous: burdensome; oppressive

Jar, some of us do the same things you are describing all the time, but we don't make it into the be-all and end-all of Life with a capital L as you do. The trees out my window make me SO happy, I'm SO thankful for them, living on a desert as I do. I gaze into them all the time, often to rest my eyes from the computer. Every time I look at them they make me happy.I also love the brand-new quail family that has taken up residence in the trees at the end of the parking lot right in front of where I park my car, with the tiniest little quail babies skittering when I approach. I thought at first they were some very small species of songbird pecking among the leaves. Sometimes they don't know I'm there and I can watch them for a long time.There's a little three-year old redhead who visits her grandmother in this apartment building. She has a very aggressive personality and makes a lot of noise, bosses around another little girl who lives here, but I found out she seems to like Bach and asked to come in one day when I had a Partita playing off a classical internet site. She only stayed a few minutes but it was a nice little visit.The roommate I had a few years ago let some deer hang out in her yard so we could watch them. They loved her yard. Cool grass sheltered from the road by trees. We admired how gracefully and effortlessly they'd leap over the fence. Never in a rush -- They trusted us. We could watch them from just a few feet away. Unfortunately they ate all the roses and the deer poop made the yard uninhabitable for her grandchildren -- but we loved them so we were sad to have to chase them away. The whole neighborhood watched over them though. There was a five-point buck among them. One night half a dozen people gathered on the sidewalk to look at him munching grass in the yard across the street from us. He would look up and then go back to munching.Years ago I adopted a baby raccoon its mother had abandoned. Wonderful experience. She would climb me like a tree and loved to hang out in my big leather book bag so I kept it empty for her.When I was a child my father picked up a newborn lamb from the side of the road -- I don't even know why it had no mother -- brought it home and gave me the job of mixing powdered milk and feeding it. I held the bottle for it every day. As it grew it would butt me playfully when I came into the pen. MUCH fun. When it was big enough we gave it to a farmer. Sad ending for me but it was a great experience.Oh, and I often return my shopping cart plus somebody else's to the cart pen.I don't know about Robin, maybe he would find all this a complete bore, getting his pleasures mostly from literature and teaching perhaps, but my point is that I enjoy it all but I still agree with him that reality and the human mind are at odds.All that means is that our imaginations outstrip our reality. We want more than we have. We may appreciate much beauty but it's not enough somehow, we want perfect beauties that don't exist; or we want a perfect love, our human loves all being imperfect; the perfect mate, and everybody knows that doesn't exist; the perfect everything. Cherries without stones. And to leap tall buildings at a single bound, and hug lions and tigers and have birds trust you. And for God to reveal exactly how the Flood happened.