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Member (Idle past 6384 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread) | |||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Bullshit Buz. It is the Israelis who are responsible. 100% responsible in this case. Actually both sides share responsibility. When one side masquerades as civillians and uses civillian services to transport weapons, they must accept the consequences of doing that: civillian deaths. Indeed, people like Hezbollah not only accept the consequences...they plan for them. They do it not just to protect themselves, but to endanger others. When the enemy starts killing lots of civillians, they become unpopular which helps swell their ranks (and thus pockets). Israel are responsible because better than anybody, they should know this. However, constantly facing this kind of combat has seemingly numbed them to it. They have repeated the mantra that it is the other sides fault for putting the civillians in danger so often that they believe it. Imagine a police officer in a hostage situation simply gunning down thirty hostages to kill three hostage takers (who were also active shooters). Israel is 100% responsible for these deaths, but so is Hezbollah. Black and white has never applied to the Middle East.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
They were in a moving convoy and the EVIL COWARDS knew full well that by the time the responding missile came in they would be safely ahead of the civilians hit for the sole purpose of drawing international sympathy for their cause. So let's get this straight, you know about this tactic. Hezbollah know about this tactic. But the IDF are ignorant of it? I don't think so. The IDF know very well that by the time the artillery attack comes in, Hezbollah are likely to be long gone. Did the IDF confirm the target was a hostile before attacking? Or did they fire deadly weapons at a certain area without checking there'd be a medical convoy coming through? It would be very easy for Hezbollah to set up a missile strike just ahead of a convoy - fire the missiles and get the hell out of there. Timed just right so the retaliation comes just as the convoy arrives. Blown up medical convoy, Geneva convention broken, everyone hates Israel, score for Hezbollah. Do you consider the IDF stupid enough to fall for that glaringly obvious tactic? Their precision retaliations are only good as long as the enemy hasn't got a counter tactic - and there has been one for a long time (make sure you aren't near the attack site). Looks to me like Hezbollah has been underestimated and have exploited the Israeli's aggression and rapid indiscriminate (ie without double checking the target area) response .
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Hezbollah could not have fired a rocket from that convoy and then got safely ahead of the civilians. Katyushas are fired from stationary launchers. I never said that Hezbollah fired the rocket from the convoy. I said the opposite:
quote: The have a stationary vehicle ahead of the known arrival time of the convoy. They fire missiles x minutes before convoy arrives from their stationary position. They get the hell out of there. The convoy arrives at the same time as the airstrike and BOOM! Israel get to be the bad guys. Israel can also say 'but we detected a missile launch in that area', and lead people to think that the covoy was firing missiles.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
All the hall marks of a good troll. Question: are children also guilty of storing weapons for hezbollah? Are they guilty by association?
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Where is the outrage over the Lebanese civilians for putting their children in the line of fire.
If you can find any evidence that someone deliberately put their children in the line of fire, by all means present it. Until the only parties that have put the children in the line of fire are Hezbollah and Israel. Not everybody in Lebanon can be in on 'it'.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
They can be held accountable for not taking all the women and children and noncombatants OUT of an area which Israel has warned it plans to bomb. Israel had a responsibility to make sure the area was clear. Perhaps they could have aided the evacuation, or recommended the UN aid the evacuation. Once again, not all of south Lebanon is in on 'it'.
Why are any children left in the area. Good question. As a comparison - which country do you think has a better infrastructure. The USA, or Lebanon? Relevant because of the New Orleans/hurricane disaster. Why are they left there? Are they able to leave? Are their parents negligent, unable to leave, dead, or afraid of packing up the truck for fear of being bombed by Israel? Parents are universally selfless. Not all parents, but globally parents will always try to get their kids out of danger - even if they themselves believe in Hezbollah's cause. I'd imagine then that most of the parents are not negligent/evil. Instead they are frightened of leaving after Israel's warning about any vehicles being viable targets. They could already be dead OR their exits are blocked (no bridges/roads).
Why did so many children die in Qana? I don't know but it's even possible that they were located right where Hazbollah had some major operation going on. Indeed - I wouldn't be surprised if Hezbollah goaded Israel into making a publicity blunder. And I wouldn't be surprised if Israel fell for it. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
...remembmer that some Muslim parents, quite a few really, consider it a great honor for their children to sacrifice themselves to kill Jews for Allah, so I'm not sure we can assume anything about motives. Interestingly, a poll was carried out:
quote: Of course, they aren't true Christians so you can ignore that, but I thought you might like the stats for your anti-Islam discussions...I'm sure you are sure they are true Muslims.
For all we know these children were smack on a Hezbollah nest. We won't know for some time if ever of course. Or, more likely, Israel was fooled into thinking it was a Hezbollah stronghold by tactical disinformation.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
The Jewish Virtual Library are actually twisting the truth there. Just a warning about soorces:
quote: Which is totally false. Annan says things like:
Annan writes: While Hezbollah's actions are deplorable, and Israel has a right to defend itself, the excessive use of force is to be condemned. quote: Is unnecessary. Kofi Annan has to speak on behalf of the UN. Only the US, Canada and Israel consider Hezbollah as terrorists - and the United Kingdom, Netherlands and Australia consider the ESO to be terrorist.The EU agrees that Hezbollah engage in terrorist activities and that its senior intelligence officer is a terrorist. So it's not so cut and dried, and for Kofi Annan making a statement one way or another on the issue (which is a political minefield) would be ill-advised and not diplomatic in the slightest.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
So - one of your sources has said things which are demonstratably false, but you still trust them because they share the same biases as you...or 'The way they report it is the way I see it.'
No problem.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I'm sorry, what is demonstrably false? I stop reading after a while and probably missed it. The bit where they said 'Annan refuses to do x', which is not true since Annan does not refuse to do it all. Annan has condemned anti-Israel terrorism on a number of occasions.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
The difference between Hezbollah and Hamas etc and Israel, is that Israel is a member state of the UN. If Annan condemns Israel's actions more it is because they should be held to higher standards than murdering terrorists.
That said, the JVL were clearly not telling the whole truth. Their obvious bias meant that they omitted material facts about the situation and said something which is basically false. Annan does condemn terrorism - just because he condemns members of the UN more does not change the fact that he condemns terrorism. To use your own opinion on his sincerity is called bias. Just because you don't believe him does not mean that he does not condemn them.
Source July -- The Secretary-General once again condemns the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel, such as the one which struck a school in the town of Ashkelon yesterday. He also calls again on the Government of Israel to refrain from actions that amount to collective punishment of Palestinian civilians, and to ensure delivery of fuel, commodities and other essentials into Gaza. The situation is dangerous and could be explosive. The Secretary-General urges all concerned to step back from the brink. Elsewhere on the site:
Zarqawi's death removes ”heinous and dangerous man' Security Council, Annan condemn attack on Russian Embassy employees in Baghdad Annan strongly condemns latest mosque bombings in Iraq Annan condemns latest suicide bombing in Iraq, urges national unity Dismayed by kidnappings in Iraq, Annan calls for release of all those abducted
No country can claim to have a perfect human rights record. And so, I hope we are not going to see a situation where the Human Rights Commission focuses on Israel, the record of its - but not on the others. We've also indicated that they should start by reviewing the records of the members of the Council itself, and so I hope we are moving away from this selectivity and politicization of the review mechanism of the Commission.
elsewhere
While noting that the Palestinian Authority has condemned violence, the Quartet further urges it to maintain law and order and dismantle terrorist capabilities and infrastructure, and reaffirms the continued importance of comprehensive security sector reform. You don't have to believe him, you can think him insincere, but that doesn't mean that you should report as fact that he has not condemned terrorism even when it is against Israel.
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