George Bush leads us into the world of Kafka.

Plenty Ministries of Nineteen Eighty-Four - Wikipedia

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Based on what?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

What makes you think that is their view? And has this "view" ever been actually implemented in any real world manner?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

The fact of the matter is that we don't know, and neither do you. The "Patriot Act" (my stomach turns at having to call it that) not only authorizes secret searches, it also prohibits anyone from telling the subject of the search, upon pain of prosecution.However, the more important point is that, even if it never directly impacts me in the least, I still protest against the violation of the civil rights of others. It's not less wrong because it doesn't affect me. And the fact that you only care about whether your rights are violated is disgusting. If you only motivated by your own self interest, consider this: Ignorance truly is bliss.If you are at all interested in the truth, read this for a list of people who had a well-founded belief that they are or were subject to illegal searches under the "Patriot Act."

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

The ACLU?The ACLU?!?Aside from the fact that all you have presented is an ad hominem reply, devoid of substance, you are simply factually wrong. The link is a United States District Court opinion. Page not found | U.S District CourtFor starters, the following opinions have held that one or more provisions of the "Patriot Act" are unconstitutional:The previously linked USDC opinion. No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.mied.uscourts.gov/eGov/taylorpdf/06%2010204.pdfNo webpage found at provided URL: http://www.ctd.uscourts.gov/Opinions/090905JCH.DoeOP.pdfBTW, this is not to say necessarily that what is happening is "criminal," but unconstutional.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

To the extent that the ACLU protects anyone's constitutional rights, I absolutely applaud them. The simple fact that you seem to be able to understand is that even people you don't like have rights under the Constitution. Even people who commit heinous acts have rights that need to be protected. And if the worst thing you can say about the ACLU is that they try to protect the rights guaranteed under the Constitution, you haven't said much.The funny thing is, you probably consider yourself patriotic, but you couldn't care less about the most important document in the history of our country.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

The answer to that is obvious. He has nothing of substance to say.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

They do it for the sake of defending everyone's Constitutional rights. I have no problem with anyone defending everyone's Constitutional rights. Why do you? Riiiiiight. But you apparently think anyone who actually provides that defense is equivalent to a child molester. Pray tell, are you including in your sweeping statement the federal judges who have ruled various portions unconstitutional? Several times in this thread you asked for specific examples of objections to the act. I gave you several. You have no response to that? Apparently all you have to say about it is that there are some people who rail against it without fully understanding it. It sounds to me like you are defending it without fully understanding it, or the objections to it, Mr. Pot.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

In message 65, you said, Many people have pointed out that the link is not from the ACLU.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Wow, there is no end to your misunderstandings. Footnote 3 of the opinion: My emphasis.John Doe is an internet access firm that received a "national security letter," a type of "administrative subpoena cloaked in secrecy and pertaining to national security issues," as the court describes it.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin