Omniscience, Omnipotence, the Fall & Logical Contradictions.

Because once again, as I have stated, we do not know our own future. There is nothing to change. If we knew our future, then we would have something to change, and if we couldn't change it, then you would have an argument.However:In the bible, there is a story where Jesus tells Peter that he is going to deny him three times, and Peter does it anyway. Is this because Peter has no free will? Absolutley not. Peter simply didn't have the will power to change it. There is a difference between free will and will power. Will power is how much effort you exert into changing something. Free will is simply the ability to exert will power. You can exert how ever much you like with enough effort.

What you have to understand is that, he could of, but because he didn't, it produced the effect of God knowing in advance that he did what he did. So what you have hear is an effect in the past being produced by a cause in the future.Well actually, to be more accurate:The outcome wasn't known anywhere in the time line. It was known outside of time. Haven't you read iano's posts?So far I have been arguing while accepting the premise that God was at a particular point in the time line having knowledge of our future choices, but I did it only for the sake of getting a point accross. Now allow me to clarify the concept of God. God exists outside of time. At certian instances God intervened and appeared to work from the inside. But God's forknowledge is something that is obtained outside of time.In fact, even saying that God is outside of time is an understatement and a mockery of God. We simply can't explain the infinite nature of God, but that was my best shot.So whether God is inside or outside of time, it is still logically valid to state that God has forknowledge of our choice which are made of free will.

It's not God's fault you are going to hell. It's your own damn fault. Think about it, you can drop on your knees right now and pleed for forgiveness of your sins while accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal lord and savior. You could have done that at anytime in your life, and you can do it now. But I doubt you will do it in the future. So you better make up your mind. Oh that's right. Your mind is already made up. I don't think the holy spirit is working on your heart anymore.

You can change things that are changable. There is no way on earth that human will power can overcome God.

Oops. The internet didn't let me post (or so it seemed) so I hit the back button, then forward, and submitted it again. Then I found out there was two of the same post. So I edited this one and put this message here. I request that an admin remove it.Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.

Yes, but that in no ways implies that our will power is ever sufficient to change that which we cannot change. We can exert however much we like , with enough effort, but it is within the restrictions of choice.

To demonstrate to them that he is God regardless of what fallacies they held to be true throughout their lifetime.

First of all, I never retreated. I always held the view point that God was outside of time. You were arguing that forknowledge equaled predestination, and I saw a flaw in your reasoning, so I pointed it out. Later on, I showed you that it didn't matter because God was outside of time anyway.Seccond of all, God is not outside of logic or reason. The problem is our finite minds are not capable of the reasoning required to understand such a God as the one that exists. However, we most certianly can demonstrate with logic that such a God is possible. Your work is no where near done because you haven't demonstrated that forknowledge and predestination are connected. Plus, iano and I have proposed that God is outside of time anyway.Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.

I kindly request that you allow me to revise my first statement. I made a simple error which needs to be fixed.I said: What I meant to say was: Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.Edited by iBibleNano, : No reason given.

Yes. As you can see, the revised version is immune to the following arguments.1. We can become like God.
2. We can achieve whatever we want.
3. We can change our whole course in life in an instant.Now I will provide a commentary to my revised version. So will power is defined as how much mental force we exert into making a choice. Duh! So whatever capacity you have to chose, that's what limits your ability to do something. Obviouslly if you have no limbs, that limits your choices. This limits what we can do, since it's based on our limited effort. A human can only exert so much effort. This also puts a limit on what we can do. It depends on what choices we make that affect the world. Obviouslly humans don't always make the right choices. Plus, as I have stated before, our choices are limited by our circumstances. Duh!

You'll have to give me a link because I can't find it. Well, I don't know what that means.

That IS what I said, BUT I have provided a commentary so that it will be interpreted correctly. Obviouslly people interpret the scriptures in thousands of different ways. The same can be said about what I have written. So I have explained what it is that I meant.

Fine. Go ahead. Ugh.

The Holy Spirit's job is to draw people to Christ. Without the holy spirit, there would be a dramatic difference in the number of people saved. As a matter of fact, nobody could be saved without the holy spirit.1. The holy spirit draws a person to God throughout their life time.
2. The person accepts Jesus into their life.
3. The holy spirit enters into their soul.That is the job of the holy spirit.

I assume you are going to argue the position that the statement you are refering to implies that we have no free will, which is nonsense. What the statement implies is that the choices we make are never sufficent to overule God. Another words, we have the free will to make any choice that is within our capacity, but no matter what choices we make, we will never overule God.Let's take Guido's chess anology for instance. The player has the free will to move the pieces wherever he wishes, but no matter what, his moves are insufficient to beat the grand master chess player.