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Author | Topic: The legalization of drugs | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
It also means you can have a use tax - like alcohol and cigarettes - that pays for programs instead of having a tax drain of prison and lost productivity.
we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
denial
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Just give in, man. Don't struggle.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Resistance is futile.
Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
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BMG Member (Idle past 239 days) Posts: 357 From: Southwestern U.S. Joined: |
Why not a pilot program with one drug to judge the effect? Marijuana I agree. Have felt adamently so for a while now. Here's just a quick piece with regards to medicinal marijuana that piqued my interest and I couldn't refrain from posting. Marijuana (also known as Cannabis, Ma, or Ganja) | Drug Policy Facts The piece is from Francis Young, former DEA's Administrative Law Judge, 1988. I know...a little way's back. And no, this is not a jest at you or other posters' who probably believe 1988 was not "a little way's back".
In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
How many times do you hear of people getting kild over "alcohol wars" or "tobacco wars" on the street? Any vodka cartels that you know of? I can't think of any. I don't know how things are in the States, but here in the UK several drugs are controlled and taxed by the government. Those legal drugs include tobacco and alcohol. Because they are taxed, there still exists a black market for untaxed drugs which are cheaper for the consumer. People inevitably get killed as a result of this.
Example The difference is at the local businessman level. As it stands, there are no legal protections for the salesman of the illegal drugs. His business concerns are managed purely through market agreements of price and patch etc. If a well funded competitor was to break market agreements and start undercutting another's business - the salesman under attack cannot complain to the monopolies commission. The only recourse is by legislating themselves in a 'black judiciary' of vendettas. Such things spiral out of control and we get the street level violence we are aware of. If drugs were legal, there would still be a booming black market trade, just like with alcohol and tobacco now - but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to the legitimate trade and the original black market trade. And of course - the taxes from the legitimate business can be put into increasing funds for cracking down on the black market to make sure that the business is a risky one to be in as a potential deterrent for those considering making quick and easy money (though as with the example above, large legitimate businesses are often involved directly in their black market equivalent).
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
the only question is whether you have gone over to the dark side ...
Edited by RAZD, : title we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
To say nothing of aspect discussed on the Brain Growth Stimulant?
we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
We have the prison system we are willing to pay for. If you want a better prison system, then you have to be willing to pay far more per prisoner than we currently spend. Paying corrections officers a decent wage would help considerably. They are finally starting to pay these people what they are worth. I don't know about other states, but Oregon corrections are upwards of 25-30 an hour starting, which is pretty good in this state. In New York or California that might not be very much.
quote: Typical right wing thinking. But this kind of thinking does not explain the reduction in nicotine use. The reduction in tobacco use is attributed to campaign awareness. And the typical left wing thinking is coddle the criminals and turn the victim into the victimizer.
It is not at all obvious that decriminalizing drugs will exacerbate the problem. Right now one of the problems is that the easiest way for a drug addict to pay for his drugs, is that he get into the drug pushing business himself. Our drug laws force up drug prices, and increase the profitability for drug pushing. You'd still have the same exact problem in Jar's scenario. People without any addiction to drugs would claim as though they do and sell it to those who are addicts. Unless of course you think the government is going to supply the same individual with an unending amount of drugs for use.
Have you paid attention to how the U.S. government fights drugs? It coerces countries like Columbia to adopt policies that would be clearly unconstitutional in the U.S. First of all, the Constitution only applies to the United States, not Columbia. Secondly, if the Colombian gov't didn't want to play along, they wouldn't.
As long as we value freedom from government coercion, drug pushers will find ways of doing business. That's right, they will always find a way to adapt. Except this time, on top of their still being violence attributed to drugs, on top of it, the taxpayers would subsidize all of its own problems. "The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
People without any addiction to drugs would claim as though they do and sell it to those who are addicts. How do you sell drugs to someone who can get them for free from the local clinic? What incentive is there to pay for something that is available free? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
How do you sell drugs to someone who can get them for free from the local clinic? What incentive is there to pay for something that is available free? As I already stated, when the actual users run out of their supply, the people claiming to do drugs will have a surplus. If anyone knows anything about addiction its that tolerance builds and it takes more and more drugs to produce the same fix. The people acting as though they do drugs will have an adundance and sell that to the actual users. As we already know, a true junky will do anything for a fix. You haven't eliminated the black market, you just feed it tax dollars and have it fester. Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : No reason given. "The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
The reduction in tobacco use is attributed to campaign awareness.
Decriminalization of drugs should be accompanied by a comparable awareness campaign. But it needs to be honest. Scare tactics will backfire.
And the typical left wing thinking is coddle the criminals and turn the victim into the victimizer.
That's typical right wing criticism of the left, but probably not correct. In any case, I don't count myself as left wing. I'm a pragmatist. What we have been doing has been an abject failure. As a pragmatist, I favor trying something different.
You'd still have the same exact problem in Jar's scenario.
I haven't seen jar's scenario. I have only seen your summary, but there is a good chance you missed important details.
First of all, the Constitution only applies to the United States, not Columbia.
Sure, just like the constitutional prohibition on torture applies only in the US. So we use "extraordinary rendition" and torture them overseas. It is disgusting. I have contempt for our government when it does that, and I have contempt when it coerces Colombia or other countries to do what would be unconstitutional here. And now you seem to be saying that, as an evangelical Christian, you are every bit as unprincipled as those who do extraordinary rendition.
Secondly, if the Colombian gov't didn't want to play along, they wouldn't.
Sure. just like Saddam didn't want to play along, so he didn't.
Except this time, on top of their still being violence attributed to drugs, on top of it, the taxpayers would subsidize all of its own problems.
Is anybody proposing subsidy?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As I already stated, when the actual users run out of their supply, the people claiming to do drugs will have a surplus. If anyone knows anything about addiction its that tolerance builds and it takes more and more drugs to produce the same fix. The people acting as though they do drugs will have an adundance and sell that to the actual users. As we already know, a true junky will do anything for a fix. You haven't eliminated the black market, you just feed it tax dollars and have it fester. Just how does this happen? All that anyone needs to do is stop by the neighborhood clinic to get whatever they want. Sorry but your idea is just silly. Another strawman. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
nj writes:
Thanks for the advice So, from a future law enforcement officer, I'd say that you fight battles only worth while and make a friend of the community whenever possible. But I have to wonder. Why can't I just shoot all of them in the head, plant a gun on their hands, and declare it was self defense? Just joking. Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc The thread about this map can be found here.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Well, I don't know. I don't think many people in the U.S. like their whiskey so much that they'll buy it off the black market...
Hopefully we can get an opinion from an American wino... you got this one's opinion already J0N
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