fulfilled prophecy - specific examples.

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To my question of who it was that Jesus was indicating would pull down the stones of the temple buildings PaulK writes:

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This has nothing to do with Jesus. The temple detruction was predicted by Solomon 2900 years ago - the reason he safe guarded the Arc, which was not founded, nor seen in the 2nd temple period, and why the Romans could not locate this most prized of all possessions. We find that Jewish prophets also predicted this, namely charging to the king of Israel that Babylon would raze the temple, and Jews would become exiled in a strange land they never knew. Precedent stands.There can be no question this Gospel depiction of not one brick standing was made retrospectively. There is no contemporary report of it upto 4 centuries after the temple fell, and one should not impose this false claim upon Jesus but Europe: in any case, it is false - there are 1000s of bricks still standing here. There are no vindicated prophesis in the NT or Quran, and none have nominated one. Ironic, but the denial goes on.

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The specific prophesy of Jesus in chapter 24 is that of the stones that the disciples with Him could "see," there would not be one left standing. I deem it possible therefore, that portions of the temple which at that moment they were not able to "see," some may have been left standing. That is one possible explanation.

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My point was this was predicted by Solomon a 1000 years before, and was vindicated by Babylon. Numerous other OT prophets also prophesized this. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus or the NT. Nor does the reason behind Rome's destruction have anything to do with christianity, but Judaism: the Jews refused to bow to Ceasar's statue because this law is in the OT, not the NT, and was observed for 2000 years before christianity's emergence. The pre-islamic arabs and the later new christians - had no problem bowing to Rome's diety - the reason they survived. Period.It does not help the NT when such ommisive and distortive semantics are employed. Nor does this cast a good image of the OT: the Jesus would lust after the genocide of his own kin. IMHO, this is just European twistings, and alligns with its bias against the Jews. But it will be difficult to get acknowledgement of this: after all, 1.1 Million Jews sacrificed their lives and their country for their faith - it does not get greater - and this fact is not even mentioned!This event of 70 CE is one of history's greatest: no people defended their faith in a more majestic way. The defense with Rome marks the greatest sacrifice by a people in all recorded history, making the NT omission unpardonable and points only to guilt and false reportings. Certainly, it is no prophesy by its precedence of Jewish writings and Babylon doing the same and for the same reason. The church, when it begat power, went on to bar Jews from returning for 2000 years: it should have done the reverse!'WHEN FREEDOM OF BELIEF - BECAME ROME'S GREATEST WAR'

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For the 50 years following, Jerusalem disappeared from history.

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Judaism did not dissapear from history; it prevailed a terrible history as no other did. Christianity and Islam were tested here - and they failed - even as they saught to allign their core belief on villification. Judaism triumphed, evidencing the greatest prophesy in geo-history. But I understand there is an inculcated reason to deface truth and history.

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I consider myself a friend of Israel.

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I am certain your intention is good, but no one who accepts a deathly 3-state in what is left of palestine, calling it a 2-state, or the name Palestinian applying to Muslim Arabs, can claim to be a friend of israel. All nations become tested with and by Israel: including European Christianity and Islam, and all its peoples - including those who claim now to be secular.In fact, even the creation of Jordan is a great evil, and a mark of doublespeak by Briton. Also, the Sinai and Golan must be deemed Part of Israel: this is because there was a multi-state arab attack on a UN established state, with no UN Resolution being issued of what is the UN's worst violation on record, and because the war rules say an attacking country does not get back land it lost in such a war. This caused continueing arab attacks with open displays of genocide upon the Jews and Israel, and now all over the world. The NY has opened with the murder of Bhutto and 20 others - there are no Zionists here, but it marks the legasy of briton, who perpertrated the same evil for India as with Palestine. The world is in chaos today not because of the climate pollution but these:'VE VILL NEVER SUPPORT THE RETURN OF THE JEWS TO *THEIR HOMELAND* BECAUSE THEY REJECTED JESUS' - The Pope.'IT WILL BE AN HISTORIC COMPROMISE FOR PEACE TO GRANT TWO STATES IN PALESTINE - ONE FOR THE JEWS AND ONE FOR THE ARABS' - Churchill.Therein is your world pollution. And there is no options other than confronting and correcting these. Only such can claim to be friends of Israel. Its hard no - and it will only get harder? More OPEN bible prophesies:'AND I SHALL PROVE ALL YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL AS FALSE''AND I SHALL MAKE JERUSALEM AS A BURDEN UNTO THE NATIONS''THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE - OR CALL YOU TO ACCOUNT TOO'Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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Before I respond please point out to me specifically what Solomon said which forms the basis of your opinion.

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I don't think there is a text saying this - but it does not negate the factor. It is claimed by sages well before Chrstianity emerged, and repeated by numerous prophets. You cannot in a pink fit allocated this to the gospels.

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You know that the temple was destroyed more than once, I am sure. Anyway, show me the specific utterance of Solomon that you are refering to.

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I rest the case. Nothing to do with the gospels or Jesus. The destruction by the Romans marks only a triumph of Israel over Europe - which has repeated itself for 2000 years, then made manifest by Israel's return. Denial is not truth.

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It does not help the NT when such ommisive and distortive semantics are employed. Nor does this cast a good image of the OT: the Jesus would lust after the genocide of his own kin.

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I see no such "lusting" of the Son of God for genocide. I see this no more than a lusting on the part of Jeremiah, or Ezekiel, or Isaiah or any other of the minor prophets.

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No, these are not the same. While jeremiah castigated the jews for not observing the laws, the Gospels castigate the jews for following their laws. Its a huge dif.

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This is a stronge Greek word showing Jesus crying over the coming judgment of Jerusalem. I see no lusting after the punishment of His countrymen.

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And the Apostle Paul wrote that he was willing to be "accursed" and cut off from Christ for the sake of his Jewish brethren (Romans 9:3)

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Never mind about Paul. Show me where the vatican and European christianity acknowledged which is the jewish homeland it stole? I see the exact reverse occuring. I follow the pursuit of truth - and this means either Judaism is wrong - or both christianity and islam are wrong. There is no compromise here.

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I would be a fool to try to deny that what I would call "Christiandom" has had terrible times of persecuting Jews. How many of those were really Christians will be sorted out at the judgment seat of Christ. And those Christians who did so should remember Peter's warning that "judgement begins at the house of God".

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No one is getting away with anything. No Christians gets away with remaining the same kind of person forever. No Christian gets away with saving his soul life or retaining his fallen nature out of which such prejudice would come.

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You should'nt get me wrong: my position saves christianity - yours will not. When Spain perpertrated its evils upon Jews, America was discovered - by Jews - and this remains the only salvation for christianity - saving this great religion from medevial Europe. I see that the Jews forgave christian europe for the worst crimes of humanity, even reconsiling with germany in record time.But I don't see the negation of those european christian attrocities today - these are now being perpertrated by deciet and PC at the UN, via horrific historical revisionism, doublespeak of genocidal 3-states dished out as 2-states for peace, Palestians annointed by Europe on jews but now being applied to those who hated this name as they do zionism today - and 100s of other falsehoods.Christianity is hardly going to be free without confronting its falsehoods. Chanting IN JC or Paulism is not the answer here. Instead, I support this:'A FALSEHOOD AND THE HOLY ONE CANNOT ABIDE TOGETHER'

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These important developments do not nullify or render trivial that Jesus spoke of the destruction of the buildings of the temple in Matthew. I didn't place the text there at a whim. It is in the Greek New Testament.

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There can be no greater insult rendered to the name of Jesus than to allign him with the temple destruction or the exile of the Jews. I shake my head at christians lusting over Jesus' crifiction, adorned with beedy eyed, long nosed jews sniggering and mocking, as per Mad Mel's passion. Show me another example of Jews perpertrating such an evil? This event of confronting Rome was, in total contradiction of the NT, mankind's greatest display of faith and sacrifice, and it is also the most unpardonable omission in the gospels. How ridiculus it is to lessen the awesome act displaced by the jews against Rome - while speaking about self sacrifice! And millions of otherwise sincere christians cannot see this - because they have been wrongly inculcated and hijacked. Lets face it - both the NT and Quran cannot be right, and both these contradict the OT: this chaos haunts humanity today.Mathew is a no go - it contains the most anti-jewish writings imaginable, resembling later Europe's mein kampf and Luther writings: why be so selective and omissive? Its not about my emotions, but the loss of credible truth given to history. Please show me where mathhew speaks of the sacrifices made by the Jews at this time - is the Josephus Documents thought you in history class of christian nations, and why not - it is far more credible than any other historical document, written as it happened, leaving no justtifiable excuse. The gospel was written by Europeans, and is a replica of what the hellenists said 200 years before. It is not written by jews, and has no evidence of its history - when it aught to have: writings were commonplace in Judea 2000 years ago.

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Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!

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Jews cherish all their prophets, and they have more than anyone else. Even their greatest King, David, bowed to Nathan the prophet. The charge of deicide is perhaps the greatest lie in all recorded history, and responsible for the deaths of 100s of 1000s of innocent souls throughout Europe's history. As if Rome would harken to jews - when history shows it crucified 100s of 1000s of jews, upto 800 per day, their families beheaded before their eyes. Does Mathew mention it - and why not? Too busy with JC I suppose? Do you not find it obscene that one Jew is cried for, while 1.1 million are disregarded? A lie by omission = a lie. Period.The problem is, this lie has been attached to the core belief of christians in the NT: so its rejection is akin to christians rejecting their most core belief. What a mess! But this is true of every utterence from Europe: not a single of her charges were ever proven true, and everyone proven false, including the blood libels, the protocols, that Jews drink children's blood on passover, etc, etc, etc. There are no clean hands here - yet you posit them as credible sources, quoting it as if it had a drop of truth?

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In fact verse 37 is of particular interest to us because it indicates that Jesus is that Jehovah God of the Old Testament come as a man:

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Believe whatever you want, but don't incriminate others by your beliefs, because it is easily defended. My quest is not againt your belief, which I know is sincere. But you cannot impose absolute distruths against others in the name of your belief. Jews never killed your savior [sic]; those who told you this, massacred over a million other Jews [truth]. Slot it in - historical truth transcends belief. Stop using European names to describe jews - a bible cannot attach itself to distruths in any manner. I find all the 1000s of names in the OT as authentic to their spacetime. What's the NT's phobia here? Why is the NT in Latin instead of the anguage of Jesus - which is not aramaic [mad mel!] but hebrew. Why have you changed the Passover service to the last supper? Did God ask you to do that? These are not traditional effectations, but purposeful designs to Europeanise the OT, and to decry everthing which is Jewish, even to exterminate their history and existence. It failed. Assoctaing Jesus with the NT is NOT a good thing. One can say, Jesus has rejected Europe and harkened to the God of Israel - manifestly so.

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When some of the Jews heard Jesus preaching they thought it was Jeremiah coming back to them and preaching again. Others thought is was Elijah and still others, John the Baptist.

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No sir, not true. jews know Jeremia better than christians, and what they must anticipate for a Messiah. Quoting Isaiah selectively and distortively is not credible. There were five candidates nominated as potential saviors against Rome - this never included Jesus, and all the candidates nominated were wrong, which they admitted. The criteria for a savior is well documented in prophetic writings, but christians want to select a verse which they can twist and allign with their own end premise, which is upside down, and ignore everything else in the book. It does not work that way: Isaiah never said the messiah will rise again - he said this for the rightious people already dead, which never happened. Hello?You cannot quote NT or Quran to explain the OT. Christianity is savable today only how America turns. Savable from Europe. America was found by Jews - when European Spain did what Europe always did. As one was driven out - another refuge was already in process. Columbous did not get lost! The NT does not transcend the OT - its the other way around. Any contradictions must allign with the OT; anything said in the NT which is not accepted by Jews is simply wrong. All that has happened, is that the church attached belief in God with antisemtitism. You guys have a problem, and I do harken to it in a form of sympathy. Because I know your belief is wrong - but sincere.How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!
Behold, your house iis left to you desolate. For I say to you, You shall by no means see Me from now on until you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.And Jesus came out from the temple and was going away, and His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the temple. And He answered and said to them,Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There shall by no means be left here a stone upon a stone, which shall not be thrown down." (Matthew 23:337 - 24:2)

WHAT?! There was never any doubt of its authenticity. I never used the term W.W.11 here - but its accuracy should not be in doubt after I posted proof of it. You should be better stunned of any denial of what is a blatancy here - your own!

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I showed you that Jesus wepted over His prediction of the misfotune of Jerusalem. It doesn't say He gloated. It says that He wept.

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Save those croc NT tears: unless you would like to experience what the NT does to yourself and then claims to weep over it? Take it to the Pope and make him cry, then let him cease doctrining Israel's demise. This is hardly about Jesus - its about european christianity and its continueing genocidal doctrines against another people and nation. Christians must face truth and state which is the jewish homeland - its rejection is a pre-med genocide. Let the Pope show us how christians can survive without their land, capital and heritage. The rest is a false depiction of Gdliness.

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I am beyond stunned that you have used this fake quote again.

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Here you have it again - just to dispell any comprehension problem or blatant denial of historical truth:

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Pope, named Vicar of Christ, speaking to Herzl: 'BUT IN ORDER FOR US TO COME OUT FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLES AS YOU DESIRE, THEY WOULD FIRST HAVE TO BE CONVERTED [TO CHRISTIANITY]. THE JEWS HAVE NOT RECOGNISED OUR LORD, THEREFORE WE CANNOT RECOGNISE THE JEWISH PEOPLE'

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More: Christian Attitudes Towards the State of Israel

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Does it mean christians must also lose their lands because they did not follow Mohammed? Edited by AdminAsgara, : edited long url to fix page width - it isn't hard to do ppl

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Who being reviled did not revile in return; suffering, He did not rheaten but kept commiting all to Him who judges righteously;

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Who Himself bore up our sins in His body on the tree, in order that we, having died to sin, might live to righteousness; by whose bruise you were healed.

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Obviously, you see what I cannot see, which is fine. I can only debate historical facts. I don't see any truth which disregards the sacrifices made by all Jews in this time, nor do I see any 'healing' you mention. BTW, 1 Million Jews 2000 years ago, was like 6 M today: so here was a true holocaust, and the destruction of a nation. I can direct you to depictions of the Temple preists, knowing they were going to die, continued their services, while witnessing their families slaughtered. What healing? What sacrifice? Do you not see that the issue of sacrifice becomes a terrible thing when it disregards what else occured here? Do you think the 1.1 million souls who sacrificed themselves had no meaning - then please prove a greater sacrifice in Geo-History. I'm listening?

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So His tears for Jerusalem were genuine. I know He cares more for the welfare of Israel than you ever will, but in righteousness, not in fleshly favoritism or drunken national pride.

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But obviously, Israel was not meriting to be saved - because they continued being Jewish - a terrible crime to follow what they did for 2000 years before hristianity emerged. What else is new! You are protected from not accepting Islam - unlike those bad jews! This is what is the problem: two religions basing their entire belief on the villification of another, while both doctrines contradict each other, and of course - its written in holy scripture, so it is the only truth, and non-negotiable!I say, these two religions will come of age when they can stand on the foundation of their own beliefs - without inventing Jewish devils to prop them up. Today, every evil, including 9/11, Tsunamis, AIDs, you name it - are Zionist Plots. All it means is no one in christianity or islam is capable of an original thought or action - they are all angels and all the bad things is because of the Jews. Else you got no bleief! But my book says there is also a motive here: like both accusers got up while chanting Israel is dead. My book says you guys should have done the reverse when you ascended to a Gdly belief: you cannot steal what is not yours, and slander the owners falsely, working to destrpy them so none can point a finger at you. Where is the healing seen the past 2000 years?

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I am ignoring your geo-political on popes, UN, European history, and what not, from here on out. I think you have diverted the subject matter to other arguments.

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And I'll ignore all what you said about Jesus, and limit myself to the historical deeds of European Christianity. Do you consider Isabela of Spain as a Saint - would jesus? What do think Jesus would tell a Pope who says Israel cannot exist because they followed the law of Moses? The Muslims say Israel cannot exist because they are born of apes, their belief is wrong, and no other religion can prevail in the M/E. Can you not see a problem here?

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We are talking here about fulfilled prophesies. Take your beef with the Pope to a forum where supporters of the Pope are debating the political attitudes of the Roman Catholic Church. Your arguments are misplaced in this discussion.

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Fullfilled can only be evidenced via open history. You want to select what you like, and ignore what is not nice. I understand this, everyone did wrongs. But terms such as healed and sacrifice, amounts to zero when it is so blatantly selective, then goes on to list why those who sacrificed themselves so majestically are made the bad guys who got what they deserved. Horray for Rome and the Church. If it makes you happy.If there's a problem facing humanity - its not with the Jews or Israel. This nation never robbed and plundered what belongs to another in all their 4000 year history - its the reverse, only it is fronted by Jesus and Mohammed for its justification. Fix it - then tell me to go to the Pope. This is the task of good christians - and that will result in fullfillment. But for Israel, christianity and Islam would have to face off each other: what happens when there's no scapegoat anymore - who will be the bad guys then? From what I see, only the OT can save the NT - its hardly the other way around.

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Obviously, you see what I cannot see, which is fine. I can only debate historical facts. I don't see any truth which disregards the sacrifices made by all Jews in this time, nor do I see any 'healing' you mention. BTW, 1 Million Jews 2000 years ago, was like 6 M today: so here was a true holocaust, and the destruction of a nation.

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It is an unspeakable tragedy.

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It is the reason I do not harken to the gospels, historically or morally. It would be fine to recognise something special of Jesus, these are mysterious compulsions, and I can acknowledge something is happening here, and that his followers are genuinely Godly inclined. I know that believing christians will sacrifice their lives or murder for this cause, as most religionists would. But this is not relevent here.When it is continued without any redress of a million innocent people massacred in its midst, with silence and villification, it ceases being a true theology or anything remotely connected with Godliness or morals. IMHO, to be christian or a good person, means acknowledging this and changing it. The Gospels is perpertrating a lie by omission: it is a serious error for a religion, and it has become a stumbling block. The rule is, 'A FALSEHOOD AND THE HOLY ONE CANNOT ABIDE TOGETHER'.I already showed you, mysteriously, the OT contains a command not to change anything, a very bold and high risk ask of anyone and any nation, considering the advancements and changes the world goes through. But this turns to be the only means christianity can change and correct itself: you have no such command, and you have in fact flaunted this law by selecting what is acceptable of God's laws: this caused a break of christianity from its mother religion.I know that the last, late Pope made canonical changes to remedy some errors seen in the gospel teachings, but this was not done sufficiently. Like all religions and religious people, christianity must know its salvation cannot come via such errors, but only via the law given at Sinai: namely if you did and do wrong, you have to correct it. The law is fullfilled only by its honoring, not its flaunting.This is what the law is all about - and there is no salvation by joining a VIP club or claiming salvation by a name. This is true for all peoples, jews, christians, muslims, buddhists, even athiest peoples. Thus I admire the OT, which does not give any immunity to wanton crimes on the basis of which religion they belong to. There are no names here, and the message transcends the messenger: correct laws are pristine and can stand on their own, to the extent even the Creator abides by His laws. There can be no truth by belief in the Gospels when historical truth is denied and flaunted.

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But then again the very existence of Israel today is somewhat miraculous.

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No thanks to the church and the mosque, is the correct conclusion here. Speak truth. This is where the gospels have brought you, and it must be corrected. It is ubsurd to believe Israel returned to prove the gospels, when this occured despite all the gospels and quran's pledges. When a Pope shakes hand with Arafat, and uses the term Palestinians to describe Muslims, he is perpertrating a great crime and a lie, and he is not confused of its import. I see the Evengelicals at least showing some coherence here: it is ok to believe salvation will come when what was robbed from the jews is corrected, while it is a different thing to wait for Israel's demise as a proof of the gospel's racism and false charges against Jews.The Vatican is condoning genocide via PC and silence, while being an actual historical witness of Israel's rights, and the name palestinian, and many chritians are screaming IN JESUS to deflect from it. How crazy! How is it different from the doctrines of Hamas? Can any European country prevail with the demands made upon Israel - so why impose it and accept it?

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She should not exist.

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The Arab muslims also agree Israel should exist - on the condition her head is chopped off first, and that they have nothing against Jews per se, and that actually there are no jews today, they all converted to Islam, the Jewish Temple site is a myth, Moses was a muslim, Jewish scripture is distorted, it is a blessing to kill jews, and nothing can be changed of this fantasic scripture of truth and justice, etc, etc. Apart from these minor conditions, everything is a ok and they agree to peace. But they are emulating what European christianity says and did, and you do not see any reason to correct all this. Just shout IN JC and ALLAH AKBAR while doing so. But my pursuit is truthfullness as best as I can muster, which transcends all beliefs.

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Paul taught that "all Israel shall be saved". Some of us still wonder exactly what Paul meant.

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So you think Israel is saved because of the gospels, or because of Jesus sacrificing himself, and if this is not the case then I am bad - it hurts your core beliefs? I don't agree. You neglect that this event occured while all christian countries slammed their doors shut to any Jewish immigration, including US, UK, CANADA, AUSTRALIA. Not to mention all Islamic states massacring Jews at the height of the holocaust and going begging Hitler not to let any Jews escape alive, Briton's forbidding entry of Jews fleeing Europe to get to Palestine - contradicting their own Balfour, and when Europe's chimneys still fumed. At this time, France sent 10,000 jewish children to the Camps to be exterminated, and Briton sent boat loads of refugee Jews back to the camps in Europe: what happened about correcting these crimes? What was the Pope doing at this time, as a representative of jesus? Today, both christianity and islam see Israel's return not as a mark against their deeds, but as a tragedy, and are both alligned in over-turning this event.Jerusalem is to be divided, the main quest today, but no christians quote what this will mean, and what is also a prophesy in its making: JERUSALEM SHALL BE A BURDEN UNTO THE NATIONS. Is this true today? Is Israel's destiny as per the gospels or the quran - or despite these? Despite all the religious fervor, I see both Jesus and Mohammed harkeing to the true God and to truth. You see it differently. There is much controversy in the camps!

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You may understand that my own cultural backround has much sorrowful historical suffering. I am African American. I have ample cause to be bitter about the historic Christianity also. Some theologians justified slavery with the Bible and taught that blacks were a cursed race destined to be slaves - the so-called Hamitic curse of Genesis was thier basis.

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These things I have had to wrestle with. Many blacks gave up the New Testament for Islam wrongly thinking that Islam was "the Black Man's Religion". They tought their children for years that Christianity was "the White Man's Religion". Of course Islam has a history of racially based slavery also. But many many of my friends wrote off the Gospel of Jesus as intrinsically "Anti - Black".

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I am responding to your posts because you do seem honest and genuine, while many here simply use devious semantics to deny everything - because they feel chocked to address the truth. I see christianity's saving only how they act with the Jews - it is their testing, if there is any credibility to all those tests mentioned in the OT. I see both christianity and islam falling in a heap if they continue their ways towards the small nation of Israel.The gospels does not transcend what was assured to Abraham or to factual history. If you curse falsely and unwarrentedly - the curse is returned in its appropriate time. This law is harkened by all true religions and true people, else there is no belief there.I see no christians marching against the vatican and the EU and UN, a greater requirement than the climate pollution and the ozone layer. This is the real pollution stalking humanity today. The vatican should cease demanding jerusalem be a universal city: this means the destruction of its Jewish sector by being overwhelmed by millions of Muslims who will purposely incline themselves this way, and the vatican is well aware of this fact.The vatican should return all Temple relics from its basement as the answer to Muslims chanting the temple was a myth - it is stolen property, and anyone assuming a blessing from that office now is wrong. The vatican must address who was the name palestinians applied to and correct the false world mindset now held, and that a deathly 3-state in Palestine is hardly a just 2-state for peace. The Vatican should expose Briton for corrupting its pledge of a 2-state, twice now, and take Jordan to task for violating the only condition of its creation. The vatican must cleanse the world of all the antisemitic diatribe pervasive in the islamic world today: these stories of blood libels and protocols, now seen across the muslim media and TV dished out as muslim truths - came from the vatican's backyard. It has a responsibility to address them, and foster truth, not diplomacy. I was amazed the Pope never raised the issue of the worst form of Islamic insults to Jews throughout their media for decades, while responding with apologia over innocent satirical cartoons! I am amazed that so-called good muslims never confronted their Regimes and clerics of it, and went on to murder nuns instead. I just don't get it - it is chaos and insanity, not religion. If Islam wants no one to insult its religion, it must be the first to negate this syndrome in its midst! Regardless that Europe was silent of it. But there is the doctrine of infidels and disbelievers here - so anything goes. Specially when it is condoned by silence and indifference from Europe.

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So while you have your historical demons to wrestle with, I have had mine also.

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Your historical demon is not addressing any of israel's rights. This is not just a theological issue, but also an historical one:'JEWS BELONG IN PALESTINE BY THEIR RIGHTS, NOT THEIR SUFFERINGS' - Churchill.As you can see, the God of Israel made sure this is not just a religious issue: the EU, UN and islamc League is also flaunting historical facts, their own UN laws which re-established Israel, their follow up law which corrupted the Balfour and carved out 80% of Palestine for Jordan [the 2-state!], and now accusing jews of judicising their own motherland with the term OCCUPATION. These are great crimes of those offices. Screaming IN JC or ALLAH AKBAR won't fix it. The problem is, these two religions have alligned their core beliefs on israel's negation, mirroring what occured in Canaan when the israelites returned from Egypt: they chanted, 'COME CURSE ME ISRAEL' - when they knew that the Israelites were 100% Canaanites and had a right to return and live peacably in canaan as before. Today, christianity and islam are doing the same, with 20/20 vision how this land was stolen by those now chanting DEATH TO ISRAEL! DEATH TO THE JEWS! But when Jews and Israel is no more, you guys will have to face each other, while you only prevail while Israel is the scapegoat. And only you can fix your own - better than waiting for a mysterious force to bring it on.Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

The truth will set you free - but you must first acknowledge it, instead of calling it as rants. It is upto the christians to cleanse the islamic world from medevial Christian lies. Why is that a rant?

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Hate to have to do this again. Where is this quote from? I cannot find it with any on-line search engine and can find nothing of the sort in the book "Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship" by Martin Gilbert, which is where such a quote should be I would think.

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Did you invent another quote in the 'spirit' of what you believed they said? Or is this from another source?

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There has been no quote by me which was not correct or unproven in this forum. This is what I mean - there is no acknowledgement. The Churchill quote is also correct, as was that of the Pope.

but you said:

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Message 109 writes:
Yes, I originally called it WW11 Pope, but there is no editorial - these are in 'brackets' and claimed as explanatory input, because the relevent extract requires this explanation.

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That is not a quote. For that matter you previously denied having made a quote:

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It was not an exact quote, nor did I use the word quote. The primary factor there was my statement was accurate in describing the Pope's remark. What next - a spelling error? The issue is, I was wrongfully accused of making up that remark, and I still see this charade continueing.One does not have to include links for every sentence, nor does one have the right to demand this w/o good reason: there was no good reason demanding a link for the Pope - who have a history of antisemitism, nor of Churchill making those remarks. The fundamental factor cannot be ignored for a semantical invention.I will post the churchill link - to embarrasss the one who demanded this.

You want to take your heading of fraud back?

quote:

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"But there, at least, it was clear that the Jewish community was "in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance," as Winston Churchill underscored at the time. "

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So why won't the leaders of the Palestinian Authority acknowledge the obvious - that Israel is the Jewish state? The Jewish connection to Palestine is a matter not just of rich historical fact, but of international law. When the League of Nations entrusted Britain with the Mandate for Palestine in 1922, it expressly recognized "the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine" and the rightfulness of "reconstituting their national home in that country." By that point, Britain had already transferred 80 percent of historic Palestine to Arab rule - today's Muslim kingdom of Jordan. All that remained for a Jewish state was the residual 20 percent. But there, at least, it was clear that the Jewish community was "in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance," as Winston Churchill underscored at the time.
CAMERA Snapshots: Key Context in Jacoby's "Is Israel a Jewish State?"

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