Before Big Bang God or Singularity

Hi Mod, I believe Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
That causes just about everyone here a problem. Not me.
I don't care how He did it. OK
If he chose to use a singularity to bring the universe into existence as we know it I got no problem with that.That would mean If I would change my God's name to singularity you would believe everything I am saying.I am not questioning the existence of a singularity.
I just want to know how it got to where it was when the universe began.I do say with the answers cavediver gave to my questions it could not exist.
I also say the statements of Hawking says it cannot exist.I think I have proved my point.That if what Hawking says is true and the answers cavediver gave me is true I have no option but to conclude the singularity did not exist.Now if it did not exist there could be no universe.And we could not be here having this debate.We are here, the universe is here whatever it came from was there.
Singularity, imploded universe, or God. Message 34I said:
"NOTICE" I say if Dr. Hawking is correct in what "HE" says in these lectures there could have been no singularity the universe expanded from. There is no way one could form under the circumstances he described that they were created in."NOTICE" I am not saying that there is no way possible for a singularity to exist. But I am saying that under the understood Big Bang Theory it could not have. Under an amended Big Bang Theory it could exist.I provided quotes from Hawking's lecturers, and source his site.Nobody refuted what Hawking said, as being false cavediver even agreed in his answers to me that you can find in: Message 91Where I said::Premise 1: Singularity including the Big Bang is the best explanation for the orgin of the universe. FalasifiedNow if what Hawking said and the answers cavediver gave in response to my questions are correct then my premise 1 is true.Does that make it true?Only if they are correct.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, Mod be realistic. The spot 5 inches from my nose was in the exact same spot it arrived when the universe expanded to the point that the spot 5 inches in front of my nose existed, prior to that moment
it did not exist and if the singularity had not expanded it would not have been there. Where did it come from? The singularity created that spot. My nose just got there a lot latter. But it was there all the time from its creation.So If I say I believe the universe has always been here in some form or another. That should give the idea that I think it self-exists. I just believe God is what is the self that makes it exist.Does the universe self-exist (all inclusive)?Is there something more than the universe which caused the universe to exist?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, I will agree with that.Now what do you want to call that entity?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, What difference does it make if it was 5 seconds ago or 10 billion years ago it was in the same spot. Created by the expansion of whatever. So if I said:
Spacetime could itself be created by a self-existing megaspacetime; Spacetime, could just be an assistant to it. Or maybe the megaspacetime is subservient to the actual self-existing entity that created it. And so on.Would that not be the same thing you are saying?So what's the difference?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, Whatever gave you that Idea?I thought you knew what I believed about God. Since you aparantly don't I will give you how Genesis 1:1 would read if I was writing it knowing what a couple of the other writers in the Bible wrote.Gen. 1:1 Before all things was I Am created the universe and streached it out, with all its majesty, and in Him we live, and move, and have our being the universe and everything in it resides in God and by Him all things can exist and without Him nothing exists.Either could be the same if you did not have an adversion to the word God.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, I'm sorry but I been doing that stupid thing Catholic Sientist told me to stop. Thinking.We know time exists.We know space exists.How do we know spacetime exists?ThanksGod Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Son Goku, This was not a press release but a public lecture.I give 2 45 minute lectures every Sunday so I know you have to be brief.But what does that have to do with saying what you mean and meaning what you say? He is either correct or incorrect.Why not explain it? We got plenty of time. I have questions that have not been answered. The only way I know to get them answered is to keep asking until somebody answers them.Below is statements from Dr. Hawking concerning the singularity and the Big Bang.

quote:

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Definition of Singularity
A spacetime is singular if it is timelike or null geodesically incomplete, but can not be embedded in a larger spacetime.

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Hawking's comments on spacetime.

quote:

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I have emphasized what I consider the two most remarkable features that I have learnt in my research on space and time: first, that gravity curls up spacetime so that it has a begining and an end. Second, that there is a deep connection between gravity and thermodynamics that arises because gravity itself determines the topology of the manifold on which it acts.

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Hawking's comments on production of singularities.

quote:

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The positive curvature of spacetime produced singularities at which classical general relativity broke down.

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Lectures the nature of space and time at: The page you were looking for doesn't exist (404)Does Hawking say a spacetime is singular?Does he say gravity curls up spacetime so that it has a begining and an end.Does he say that there is a deep connection between gravity and thermodynamics that arises because gravity itself determines the topology of the manifold on which it acts.Does he say The positive curvature of spacetime produced singularities at which classical general relativity broke down.Would you answer these questions and explain to me how a singularity could be produced taking into consideration what Hawking said.Edited by ICANT, : spelling

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, Whose definition of God is this?Yours or some YEC'ER or Some ID'ER It ain't mine.You going to have to quit classifying me with those folks cause we don't speak the same language.Here is my definition of God: Does that sound like a different entity or the entire universe wraped up into one entity which I call God?Why did you ignore the above statement and give your definition of God in an answer to my post?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Son, Everybody keeps saying it is a nonsence question.Could that be because they don't want to face the fact they they have no idea how or why it got there? These are the questions you are answering yes to all.Does Hawking say a spacetime is singular?Then this spacetime can not be a part of another spacetime.Does he say gravity curls up spacetime so that it has a begining and an end.It takes gravity to curl up spacetime.Spacetime has a beginning and an end.Does he say that there is a deep connection between gravity and thermodynamics that arises because gravity itself determines the topology of the manifold on which it acts.Gravity determines the topoogy of the manifold on which it acts.Does he say The positive curvature of spacetime produced singularities at which classical general relativity broke down.The positive curvature of spacetime produced singularities.Sumation:Since spacetime has to have a beginning when did the one at T=0 begin?The spacetime at T=0 could not exist in another spacetime.If spacetime if necessary for a singularity and does not exist Gravity can not curl it up.Then if Gravity does not exist it could not curl up spacetime if it did exist.Conclusion:No spacetime.
No Gravity
NO singularity
No Big Bang
No Universe
We are not here.This being the case I have to conclude:Premise 1: Singularity including the Big Bang is the best explanation for the orgin of the universe. FalasifiedGod Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, I had to look that varmint up.Pantheist Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster Nope I ain't one of those varmint .I do not equate God with the forces and laws of the universe.God is the force that makes the universe and holds it together. He is the laws.Did you not read, in Him we move and have our being?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, They are not the same thing and they are different things.The universe is a part of God if there are other universes out there they are a part of God.When He told Moses to go tell Pharaoh to let my people go Moses wanted to know what to tell Pharaoh.God said tell him I AM sent you.I Am denotes all that there is or ever will be.I also believe that God became flesh in the form of Jesus and came to the earth and did a lot of things. In fact He paid my debt so I can live with Him for eternity.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Son, I am not trying to be difficult on purpose I know I am difficult because I ask hard questions. This is a debate board.So why not instead of insulting remarks you just take [msg262]
and go down it line by line and show me where I am wrong.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Percy, Percy cavediver and Son Goku both answered questions to the affirmative concerning what hawking said. I drew conclusions based upon what Hawking said and what they said about what Hawking said. Aside: This brought a lot of traffic to the site what was the highest number?In Message 262 I lay out my case.In Message 269 I asked Son to take msg 262 line for line and show me where I am wrong.Is that too hard of a question or one that can not be answered?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Son, I am beginning to think the only mistake I made was expecting an answer. OK lets start all over.You are saying there will be a singularity somewhere in spacetime.
I can understand that.GR says there was a singularity at T=0.
I can understand that.At T=0+ expansion began which created space, time, gravity and everything that it took to create all the things that we see in the universe and the things we can not see.
I can understand that.Correct me If I got any of these wrong.God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : spelling

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Son, I know the expansion didn't start at T=0.
I did think it started shortly after T=0As I stated: I stated at T=0+ (+ for shortly after)I think this agrees with what you are saying.Correct me if I am still not getting it.The rest of that sentence can happen at any time after expansion began.Since you did not address the other 2 I am going to assume you agree those are OK. Correct me if I am wrong in this assumption.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."