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Author | Topic: The Bible's Flat Earth | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
kuresu writes: So let me ask you again: have you ever seen a circle that is not flat? Or are you just trying to make the jews look really stupid by claiming that they don't know the difference between a circle and a sphere? i think its the flat earth society who are making the jews look stupid by claiming that they believed the earth was flat by the interpretations they put to a handful of verses
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Kapyong writes: Peg - it's already been cited above.Are you actually READING this thread ? There IS a word for "sphere" or "ball" in Hebrew (dwr), and it is used in Isaiah 22:18 -"He will surely turn violently and toss you like a ball into a large country;" and this is the dilema, One Hebrew word for generation is dohr, corresponding to the Aramaic dar. Dohr comes from a root verb meaning 'stack in a circle' or 'move around' and thus has a basic underlying meaning of 'circle.'and the related word dur means 'ball.' So some languages have muliple words for the same thing and others have multiple meanings for the same word And just because today 'circle' means a 2d object, does not mean that it was the same thing in ancient times EG, what is a compass today? Most people know a compass to be a navigational instrument but in ancient times is was an instrument used by a carpenter or another craftsman to mark or inscribe a circle or an arc on wood or some other material. The only Biblical reference to a compass is at Isaiah 44:13 where it says 'with a compass he keeps tracing it out...' Is it right for the translators to apply 'compass' to this verse when the thing that we know as a compass is completely different to what is being used as a compass back then?. Or perhaps we should do what is being done in regard to the word 'circle' and interpret that the ancients had a navigational device making them much more technologically advanced then we give them credit for? Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes: Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still,So it is the sun that moves and not the earth, which is flat, and if you believe otherwise well, you are not a true believer.. how do get 'flat' from that verse??? seriously, all it says is that the sun stood still. From an earthly perspective, it is the sun that appears to move across the sky... so the writers were simply explaining the things they saw from the perspective that they saw them its called Perspective
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes: Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. (Isaiah 38:8) 'Here I am making the shadow of the steps that had gone down on the steps [of the stairs] of A′haz by the sun retrace backward ten steps.’ And the sun gradually went back ten steps on the steps [of the stairs] that it had gone down.' translations can be murcky, What happened here, simply a sign was given to Ahaz by God. The sign appears to be the reversing of the shadow on the steps. says nothing about a flat earth a round earth a spherical earth...it simply says the shadow will reverse itself by 10 steps. A miracle by God. How is this scripture an evidence of a flat earth or of a writer confused about the motion of the planets???
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
give me a primer so I know what parts of this book should be taken literal and which parts should be taken metaphorical. nMust be easy. You and buzz seem to have no problem determining what the distinction is. Once you can do this I am sure all of this misunderstanding will go away. Thanks. Once I get this lesson maybe your arguments won't seem so random and senseless. No, its not always easy and there are still pieces of the puzzle that i am trying to figure out. In saying that though, there is a general rule that is the key to bible understanding.... Context. You have to consider the immediate context of the scripture in question. Without it the scripture can mean anything. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes: Of course if the earth is stopped spinning then for the moon to not be moving relative to the earth it is now in free fall. and thats what a miracle is something that goes contrary to nature...something that would normally be impossible certainly its impossible for any man to do, but can we say that it is impossible for God to do?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes: So you believe that the Jews from earliest times understood correct concepts of modern cosmology even though they lacked any knowledge beyond their neighboring peoples in math, chemistry, physics, biology, metallurgy. Do they also understand gravitational lensing then and time dilation as well? These are part of modern cosmology. Or do they just understand those parts of modern cosmology that you happen to understand as well? no, its more likely that as a group they didnt know the inner workings of the cosmos and the earth...but what they did know came from their God So we should look at the things that they did know
As an agricultural society, their laws stated that they should let the land rest every 7 years, something modern day farmers are still learning (or not) they used Quarantine as a method to control the spread of disease, this was not practiced by people even during the great plagues that killed millions in recent times they had developed a sewerage disposal system to keep all waste products away from their living quarters...someone give a bible to the Indians please! They wrote that Rabbits were chewers of the cud, something that has only recently been confirmed by the Smithsonian Institute They wrote that the teeth have a layer of skin before the invention of the telescope they knew that life begins at conception, sadly our world is still debating when life begins in the womb Off topic material is hidden. Use peek if you want to read it but do NOT respond. While Aristotle taught that the earth rested on Solid transparent spheres, the bible writer said that the earth was suspended upon nothing. The bible says that the earth is Round/Circular, only a spherical object appears as a circle from every angle of view. A flat disk would more often appear as an ellipse, not a circle. No matter how you want to interpret it, a circular earth is accurate to a person on the ground. To a person in space, the earth appears as a circle from all angles. Edited by Peg, : No reason given. Edited by AdminNosy, : No reason given. Edited by AdminNosy, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Admittedly, chewing the cud is done by an animal with two stomachs in which the food is processed twice. While the rabbit does not have two stomachs it does process its food twice
it does this by eating its droppings...those droppings thus go thru the digestive tract twice thus a rabbit, in this sense, is a chewer of the cud. this is off topic
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
thingamabob writes: Gen. 1:9, 10 tells us that all the land mass was in one place and it was called earth.If a man was standing on the sea shore and began walking following the coast line he would eventually end up where he started. Would this man have any way of knowing he was not on a flat piece of ground, except for the rises he could see? there would have been no man alive to witness that by the time man came on the scene, the earth was a very different place.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Chiroptera writes: why we can't just accept that Isaiah, and the other writers of the Old Testament, used flat earth imagery in their writings? because that is merely an interpretation a small group is putting on some verses If i tried to tell you that the word 'immovable' means 'flat' you would laugh at me. They mean completely different things yet an 'immovable earth' is being translated as 'a flat earth' it doesnt make sense.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Dman writes: How come it is ok to say that the writers explained things the way they saw them when talking about the sun, but not for the earth itself? More importantly how can you tell when they were writing from perspective and not? As it has been said earlier in the thread, looking at the horizon the earth seems flat. Again, it comes down to the context. Can you read one sentence in a paragraph and know the context? no, not likley. You would need to read a whole paragraph in the bible to understand the context and only then can you determine if it is metaphorical or allegorical or literal Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes: So there is this layered model of flat earth over waters. Also you dismissed my quote from Isaiah with the sun retreating by using a different translation that interpretes it as the shadow going back and not due to the sun's movement. Very well Habakkuk is later than Isaiah by approximately a hundred years. He seems to agree that it is the sun that moves as well. it was a miracle. The shadow was given as a sign and the witnesses would have seen it as the sun staying put in the sky because from their perspective, its the sun that moves just because the writer wrote that the sun stood still, does not have to mean that it literally stood still. it stood still by their perspective only...and the inpsired writer saw the same event and so recorded it as the way he saw it. About the book of Enoch...its not a bible book and its writings are quite different to what is found in the bible.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
anglagard writes: So was the earth still rotating as usual and the shadow an illusion placed by divine intervention in order to keep the testimony in Joshua infallible? I would say that a miracle occurred by Gods power. Its not the only account of this happening. Joshua 10:13 says 'Accordingly the sun kept motionless, and the moon did stand still, until the nation could take vengeance on its enemies. Is it not written in the book of Ja′shar? And the sun kept standing still in the middle of the heavens and did not hasten to set for about a whole day.' the event would be a miracle, God must have stopped the motion of the planet ,perhaps the universe... however he did it, and the bible doesnt say how, from the perspective of earths inhabitants, the sun was motionless in both instances.
anglagard writes: I have a question. Since according to you there are 'good' Bibles and 'bad' Bibles, 'literal' and 'literal but not literal' interpretations, 'good' science and 'bad' science depending upon what you claim is to be taken literally or not from any given Bible, are you stating that your person, because you claim to be inspired by that divine spark, are the sole and final arbiter of all religion and science for everyone on earth? I just ask because you seem utterly unaware of self-contradiction or indeed even the concept of basic human humility before God when debating. are you saying that because i stick to my beliefs? I thought debate was about discussing varying perspectives...obviously i am wrong. So i'll save you the controversy and just say You're right and I am wrong.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
thing writes: The land was all in one place on the third day and man was created on the sixth day. So why wasn't man there? When did the land mass get changed that he could not wittness it in one place? im not a creationist so i dont adhere to the literal 6 days of creation. the hebrew word translated to 'day' in english represents a 'period of time' it cannot be a literal 24 hours for several reasons that have been discussed in other threads but is off topic here so i wont go into it.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
GM writes: Don't be silly, you know that's not what I'm asking. The angel is at the extreme Eastern end of the Earth. Where, precisely, is he standing? he's not standing in a literal position this is a symbolic expression 'the four corners of the earth,' and 'the four winds of the earth' (Re 7:1) cannot be taken to prove that the Hebrews understood the earth to be square. The number four is often used to denote that which is fully rounded out, as it were, just as we have four directions and sometimes employ the expressions 'to the ends of the earth,' 'to the four corners of the earth,' in the sense of embracing all the earth. All the things spoken of in REvelation such as the 4 riders of the Apocalypse (War, Pestilence, Death, Famine) for example, will happen earth wide. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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