homosexuality and the Bible

this is also to ACI am sure they didn't wake Up and say
HEY I WANT TO BE GAY! They just feel it just like You and I feel when we see a Girl we like. Its not upbringing. My Friend was brought up in a "normal" home and he is Homosexual. When he told his family they where ignorant like you. Its a shame. Although I don't 100% understand homosexuality I know that this is what he feels. you can't change that. If it was wrong why did your God let him feel it?[This message has been edited by DC85, 08-20-2003]

quote:

---

Sir, I believe that a murderer can be a Christian or can become
a Christian. That doesn't mean that a murder wasn't committed
or that it suddenly became OK.

​

The very same is true for a homosexual. The act doesn't take on
righteousness because the person is or becomes a Christian. However,
the indivdual recognizes that he is living in error and is trying to
change with GOD's help. The act isn't OK and lives still can
be ruined by sin.

---

I really could not care less what your personal mythology states regarding homosexuality...I know the old christian cop out of raping, murdering and pillaging and then saying "oh I was bad but found god so everything is ok and I get to go to heaven and do it all again woo hoo" Fortunately the majority of the christians I know are absolutely nothing like you..they are actually intelligent and kind.I still notice you have absolutely avoided the biological fact that a significant component of homosexual behavior is genetic i.e. hereditary in origin...but as others have pointed out, you are very poor at supporting your assertions or directly addressing the issues under discussion.

I fully agree, adolescence is hard in our society. Which is exactly why ignorant bigots such as yourself should shut up and let people understand themselves without being told their evil because they jerk off to pictures Johnny Depp, rather than the bra section of Kay's catalogue. (Or vice-versa for those of the female persuasion.)As to common sense, well I'd say letting folk choose their lifestyle any way they like so as long as they ain't harming others is common sense. Hell, with the overpopulation problems the world has, a few more gays might help out.Your original statement was ignorant, stupid and illogical. There is exactly zero connection between supporting homosexuals, and supporting the likes of NAMBLA. That's like saying that supporting heterosexuality is like endorsing dad's that rape their daughters.[This message has been edited by Mr Jack, 08-21-2003]

quote:

---

If it was wrong why did your God let him feel it?

---

Uh... free will.------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewisholla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

quote:

---

I still notice you have absolutely avoided the biological fact that a significant component of homosexual behavior is genetic i.e. hereditary in origin...

---

Please explain how that is a fact?------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewisholla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

Threads work better if you read them, MessanjaH.

Did the bible instruct you not to read posts?Posted yet again...Hum Biol. 1998 Apr;70(2):347-65. Related Articles, Links
Human sexual orientation has a heritable component.Pillard RC, Bailey JM.Department of Psychiatry, Boston University School of Medicine, MA 02118, USA.We present an overview of behavioral genetics research on homosexual and heterosexual orientation. Family, twin, and adoptee studies indicate that homosexuality and thus heterosexuality run in families. Sibling, twin, and adoptee concordance rates are compatible with the hypothesis that genes account for at least half of the variance in sexual orientation. We note observations of homosexual behavior in animal species, but the analogy to human sexual orientation is unclear. We discuss the reproductive disadvantage of a homosexual orientation and present possible mechanisms that could maintain a balanced polymorphism in human populations.andScience. 1993 Jul 16;261(5119):321-7. Related Articles, LinksComment in:
Science. 1993 Jul 16;261(5119):291-2.
Science. 1993 Sep 3;261(5126):1257; discussion 1259.
Science. 1993 Sep 3;261(5126):1258-9.A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation.Hamer DH, Hu S, Magnuson VL, Hu N, Pattatucci AM.Laboratory of Biochemistry, National Cancer Institute, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892.The role of genetics in male sexual orientation was investigated by pedigree and linkage analyses on 114 families of homosexual men. Increased rates of same-sex orientation were found in the maternal uncles and male cousins of these subjects, but not in their fathers or paternal relatives, suggesting the possibility of sex-linked transmission in a portion of the population. DNA linkage analysis of a selected group of 40 families in which there were two gay brothers and no indication of nonmaternal transmission revealed a correlation between homosexual orientation and the inheritance of polymorphic markers on the X chromosome in approximately 64 percent of the sib-pairs tested. The linkage to markers on Xq28, the subtelomeric region of the long arm of the sex chromosome, had a multipoint lod score of 4.0 (P = 10(-5), indicating a statistical confidence level of more than 99 percent that at least one subtype of male sexual orientation is genetically influenced.The Science paper fell a bit out of favor as the results could not be reproduced.The genetics of homosexuality will be like all other behavioral traits...quantitative and not dependent on a single gene.Now its your turn to show me the scientific documented "facts" that refute the content of the first article...note that the first is a review of multiple studies performed by people who don't close their eyes to the world around them as you have so you have to demonstrate how they did not actually record the observations they made and that all homosexuals are so because of a specific choice they made as you have asserted.

crashfrog writes:

quote:

---

He made humans with a gay gene?

---

I'm going to have to split the difference here between those who say that it hasn't been shown and this statement here.It is fairly clear that sexual orientation has a biological component. Twin studies show that identical twins are much more likely to share the same sexual orientation, even when raised apart. Some studies seem to have found some genetic markers that are shared by gay people as well as some studies that have found other, physical differences between gay people and straight people, but those findings are all still preliminary. Attempts to change a person's sexuality routinely fail miserably; it appears to become established by age 3 if not earlier.Does this mean sexual orientation is genetic? No. It simply means that there is a biological component. It may be a hormonal issue.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Mr Jack writes:

quote:

---

The selective pressure against a 'gay gene' would be huge.

---

Why? You're assuming that there is no species benefit to non-reproducing individuals.We often find in studying the sexual behaviour of other animals that gay individuals will often assist in the raising of siblings' children. Nieces and nephews are not direct biological descendents, but they are likely to carry a significant number of genes in common with their aunts and uncles. By assisting in their raising, those genes are more likely to remain in the population.So it would seem that the question of the pressure against genetic components of sexual orientation are quite complex.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

crashfrog writes:

quote:

---

Well, until Rrhain comes around, is there anyone to address Truthlover's points?

---

Brian already did.truthlover's main problem is that he is still is confusing our modern concepts of sexuality with the ancient ones and Brian very eloquently responded to them.There's at least one case of misquotation, by the way. The reference to "that which is unseemly" was my argument that it had nothing to do with sexuality. I don't know why he thinks I think it has to do with prostitution. I was the one pointing out that it is more a term used for female genitalia and thus to go from that to male homosexuality is ludicrous. And yet, many people point to "that which is unseemly" as a reference to homosexuality.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

messenjaH writes:

quote:

---

Sexual prefence is a choice, its not a disease or a condition, and it doesnt happen genetically.

---

Then why is it we have singuarly failed to change anybody's sexual orientation?

quote:

---

Your not born gay.

---

Why not?It seems to happen before you're 3.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

messenjaH writes:

quote:

---

Maybe those in the family who are gay influence that persons choices.

---

(*blink!*)You didn't just say that, did you?Considering that the overwhelming majority of gay people were raised in straight families, where does this idea come from?You're not about to argue "gays recruit," are you? Tell me, what would it take for you to "turn gay"? What would have to happen for you to decide that you are actually attracted to someone of the same sex and then go out and actively seek sexual contact with someone of your own sex?What on earth would you get out of it? If you find the idea disgusting and abhorrent, what would possibly drive you to do it over and over and over and over...?------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

DC85:Does a person wake up one morning & say, "I want to be a prostitute?"
Things happen in steps and stages. Choices we make during our lives
and the friends we listen to all have an influence. Some are for
the good and some are bad.
Do you really believe that if it "feels" good that it's good. Perhaps
your friends family were not the ones being ignorant----but then
I never met them nor your friend.Mammuthus:I would submit that you don't KNOW me at all. You don't KNOW my
tastes or friends. You don't KNOW about my youth or my family.
You don't even see my facial expressions. You would judge me
by debate?I would also submit to you that through the middle of the 20th
century, most criminals were considered to have genetic disorders
and that their behavior was hereditary. This supports the Bible's
stand that sin is passed down from father to son to the third and
fourth generation among those that HATE GOD.Mr. Jack:Homosexuals recruit the young and sin is sin. I don't condome
looking at PLAYBOY nor lusting after women. The ONLY reason for
marriage is to start a responsible family unit with GOD at the
top over the father supported by the wife and raising children in
the understanding of the LORD. Calling me a bigot only reflects
your own intolerance...

A_Christian writes:

quote:

---

So, we get a young teen (already confused about life) and tell him
that if he isn't practicing fornication by 15 he is obviously gay
and needs to come out.

---

Excuse me? Where does anybody ever say this? Show me anything anywhere by any reputable person that indicates a person who doesn't have sex by the time he graduates high school is really gay.By the way, how can somebody be "confused" about what makes him horny? You either get aroused or you don't. You cannot make somebody find something sexually attractive. If you could, then perhaps you could tell us what it would take to turn you gay. What could somebody possibly do to you that would make you find another member of your own sex desirable?I can easily see somebody being "confused" about what it means from a societal point of view when he finds himself sexually aroused by a bunch of different things, especially when your body is so flooded with hormones that simply sitting in a certain position can trigger sexual response.But how can there be any confusion over the concept of, "Do you want to kiss that person"?

quote:

---

Of course there are older men who would just
love to be of service to our young fledgling (show him the ropes).

---

We call them the clergy...I didn't just say that, did I?You seem to have confused pederasty with homosexuality. Child abusers choose their victims based upon availability and the fact that they are androgynous. Are there gay pederasts? Of course. But the studies show that gay people are actually less likely to be pederasts than straight people.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

prophecyexclaimed writes:

quote:

---

The Bible blatantly states that being homosexual is an abomination to the Lord.

---

Really? Where? I've been through the whole thing a few times and I can't find a single verse that says being gay is a problem.Oh, I've found passages that talk about how to go about having sex with someone of your own sex, but they number less than 10. This is compared to the few hundred passages that talk about how to about having sex with someone of the opposite sex.If putting restrictions on how one has sex with someone of the same sex means it is an abomination to be gay, then it must be really obscene to be straight since there are a hundred times as many claims of "abomination" attached to heterosexual sex acts.Or perhaps there is a difference between being and doing....------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!