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Author
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Topic: A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 39 of 297 (525745)
09-24-2009 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by PaulK
09-24-2009 12:02 PM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
This appears to indicate a crash on the following Friday, the 24th April - the day that he asks his congregation to pray and fast, the last Friday of the month. Note that here it is referred to using the future tense. You have added your own words to the prophecy, TB Joshua doesn't include the words "the last" As you have above and therefore your whole argument crumbles.
Last time I told you about a family that entered the plane. I said the whole family, I saw the whole family -they entered the private jet and the plane crashed. The whole family — what happened? I’m praying, I’m praying that, what would make the family ... if it’s just one person that would go but all the family, they just entered the plane. Where? What happened? As to the past tense used here, TB Joshua is telling his congregation what he saw in his vision, of course in his vision he did see the family enter the plane like a movie if you would, so the use of past tense doesn't mean that he was suggesting that it had already happened. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by PaulK, posted 09-24-2009 12:02 PM | | PaulK has replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 41 of 297 (525748)
09-24-2009 1:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by Perdition
09-24-2009 1:17 PM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
But you have to admit that, at best, he was vague on the when, where and who. He could be fairly certain that on some Friday, a plane with a family on it will crash. Once it happens, he can claim it as a verified prophecy. I will not admit that based on your current argument. Because Tb Joshua does mention Friday as the day of the accident, he mentions a private jet and he mentions a family and the time between the date of the prophecy and its fulfillment is relatively small.
But you have to admit that, at best, he was vague on the when, where and who. He could be fairly certain that on some Friday, a plane with a family on it will crash. Once it happens, he can claim it as a verified prophecy. There are possible reason; God probably would not have him reveal their identities, or the vision he received was not so clear as to reveal their exact identities. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 1:17 PM | | Perdition has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by Larni, posted 09-24-2009 1:46 PM | | Cedre has replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 43 of 297 (525754)
09-24-2009 1:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Rahvin
09-24-2009 12:32 PM
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Re: (insert mockery of Cedre here)
Child delivery is common in periods of extreme stress or heightened emotion. If you've ever seen a "faith-healing" pastor at work, you'd know this qualifies. The women who give birth at the SCOAN, come into the service cool and calm they sit through the entire first half of the service which is comprised of sermonizing without any signs of contraction, and during the second half of the service which is healing time, they still seem calm-and-collected, only when TB Joshua extends his hands towards their wombs one-at-a-time do some start acting up, and then within seconds the child is born, literal seconds. There are cases outside of the walls of the SCOAN of babies being born in 60 seconds, and that's it, even so they are very rare and thinly dispersed. The remarkable thing is these women hardly have anytime to feel any pain as the babies shoot out suddenly and unexpectedly, extreme stress or heightened emotion is not usually evident, but I still do not think that extreme stress necessarily facilitates a faster birth, women giving birth in hospitals usually have extreme stress and emotions are high yet it takes hours for a baby to be born. I do not think furthermore that they go into the service with a lot of expectation everyone has a pinch of skepticism, some of them only ask prayer for a successful birth in a hospital setting only to give birth right there in front of many total strangers from kids to adults a few minutes later .
healing of terrible cancerous sores,
Pictures, or it didn't happen. I keep on saying you can't use a claim as proof for what you are trying to prove. It takes more then rhetoric to build a solid argument. these healing are captured on film and are performed in front of doubters, skeptics, critics even medical professionals, the total number of those in attendance in a regular service, visitors plus regulars is in the thousands.
Fuck you, asshole. Lots of snakeoil salesmen, particularly in Africa, claim to be able to cure AIDS/HIV - that's where we got the whole "rape a virgin for a cure" nonsense, after all. I don't appreciate your use of boorish language when you talk to me. If you can't communicate decently with people then you should communicate at all.
Show documented cases where multiple people have been diagniosed by a medical professional with HIV/AIDS, and have subsequently been diagnosed by a medical professional with an undetectable viral load and normal T-cell count after no less than one year with no medication. There are documented cases remember these miracles are done before man many people, and apart from this many of the prayed for people have doctor's reports to show for their ailments. Visit the SCOAN website and order material from their webstore, If you don't want to do that track down these people and confirm with them. You should be able to find at least one.
[qs] Weeks ago?! IDIOT! HIV negative?! IDIOT! That's not the way HIV diagnosis works. So here's a quote from Wiki on HIV testing:
quote: Antibody tests HIV antibody tests are specifically designed for routine diagnostic testing of adults; these tests are inexpensive and extremely accurate. [edit] Window period Antibody tests may give false negative (no antibodies were detected despite HIV being present) results during the window period, an interval of three weeks to six months between the time of HIV infection and the production of measurable antibodies to HIV seroconversion. So, they were tested positive a few weeks ago, and now they don't? Sounds like they were tested during the window period and received false negatives on their second testing. COme see me in a year. This doesn't include everyone, but only the group in question. But the bottom line is even the passage you give merely states "Antibody tests may give false negative results" its not the rule its just an exception, meaning that it doesn't give false readings at all times, and the group of people in question tested positive for HIV only a few weeks ago. Their medical certificates, clearly giving a positive reading, were a death sentence for most. Today, after returning to local hospitals for tests, they proudly show off their latest medical reading for HIV - it's negative. They were a group not one individual, its not likely that all of them will give false results. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Rahvin, posted 09-24-2009 12:32 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 44 of 297 (525756)
09-24-2009 1:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by Larni
09-24-2009 1:46 PM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
Why would the Abrahamic god not want to reveal their identities and yet allow the good pastor to see what he saw? At this point I would have told you to ask God personally, but I won't I will give probable reasons; one reason may be to confirm TB Joshua's ministry and put to rest all the unfounded criticisms he suffers daily from doubting Thomases, another reason may be to show that God is in control, and that He knows the end from the star. Or the reason may simply be unknown to man. Whatever makes you happy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by Larni, posted 09-24-2009 1:46 PM | | Larni has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 52 by Larni, posted 09-24-2009 2:39 PM | | Cedre has not replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 46 of 297 (525759)
09-24-2009 2:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Theodoric
09-24-2009 2:03 PM
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Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
The article dubbed "Spiritual Healing Around the World", did not dedicate a full story to TB Joshua but enclosed him in it, With a picture and a caption. Here's the link, Page not found | TIME. My point is he garnered the notice of the journalists at "Time Magazine", because news of his wonder work was travelling fast.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Theodoric, posted 09-24-2009 2:03 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 53 of 297 (525767)
09-24-2009 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by PaulK
09-24-2009 2:21 PM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
Wrong. Even if that were a valid criticism (and it is not) the other points I raise still stand. I'm not going to let you get away with this statement. Why am I wrong when that phrase has been deliberately added to TB Joshua's original statement. And why isn't my criticism valid?
You yourself asserted that the "Friday of the Month" must refer to a specific day. It is clear that a word is missing - because more is needed to make it refer to a specific day. "Last" is certainly a candidate - and based on the other evidence one of the most likely ones. Can you think of a word that would make it refer to May 22nd ? I cannot. "Friday of the Month" is not your typical way of speaking, but you must not overlook the fact that this man is not a Englishman, the bottom line is there is no missing word here you can view the video of the live broadcast or you can ask the many people who watched TB Joshua make this prophecy. And you're forgetting the fact that he reminded his congregation about that same prophecy again later on and here he says he will pray that instead of the whole family going it will only be one. If as you suggest the accident had already taken place by the time of his second mention of the event then why did he have to pray as he did above.
Yet his vision was in the past when he spoke on the 19th - but in the quotes you gave he does not use the past tense at all on the 19th - and he does not use any other on the 26th. So the evidence that he meant 24th April and not 22nd May is: He specifically asked for prayers to be said on the 24th April, and on no other Friday On the 19th he issued a warning against traveling, but on no later day. (And if he had specifically meant the 22nd May he should have repeated the warning on the previous Sunday ! - the 17th May) The "Friday of the Month" plausibly means the 24th April - and does NOT plausibly mean 22nd May, as a specific date. It's interesting to note the TB Joshua disagrees with what you have presented here, on his website. The men who made the statement has every right to decide what he meant. I cannot speak for you and you cannot speak for me. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by PaulK, posted 09-24-2009 2:21 PM | | PaulK has replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 55 of 297 (525770)
09-24-2009 2:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by slevesque
09-24-2009 2:41 PM
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Re:Thankyou slevesque
Thanks for that insight slevesque it cleared up a lot. I guess then that these people really were cured of Aids.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by slevesque, posted 09-24-2009 2:41 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 58 by Theodoric, posted 09-24-2009 3:09 PM | | Cedre has not replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 56 of 297 (525771)
09-24-2009 2:49 PM
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I'm going away for now
See you again tomorrow folks, please preferably don't post anything new until tomorrow as I won't respond to anything until tomorrow. don't flood the thread while I'm away please withhold your posts until tomorrow. If your gonna post try to keep it under one per poster.
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 69 of 297 (525864)
09-25-2009 2:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 59 by PaulK
09-24-2009 3:19 PM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
Why I am not allowed to suggest that the missing word is "last" ? That is all that I did, and I had good reasons for doing it. Reasons which you have not refuted. Because they are your words not TB Joshua's words, your twisting a man's words to get him to agree with your theory. again I ask, why am I wrong when that phrase has been deliberately added to TB Joshua's original statement. And why isn't my criticism valid?
It is apparently not YOUR way if speaking either, since you offer no viable alternative I will re offer my previous alternative. an Alternative that rhymes better with the known facts and does justice to the prophecy:
Last time I told you about a family that entered the plane. If the prophet was reciting his vision then the tense that was used here still makes perfect sense, because in his vision he did to be sure see the family enter the plane as if it had already happened, the next line bears this point out further; I said the whole family, I saw the whole family -they entered the private jet and the plane crashed. Make a note of especially the phrase "I saw" a sound indication that he was reciting his vision.
The whole family — what happened? I’m praying, I’m praying that, what would make the family Note the phrase "I’m praying that, what would make the family" Note the phrase what would another clue that suggests the family was still alive at the moment.
... if it’s just one person that would go but all the family, This is another interesting line, his use of the word if suggests that the family was still alive. So far all of these lines are compatible with someone reciting a vision.
they just entered the plane. Where? What happened? Nothing here suggests that TB Joshua wasn't reciting what he had seen in his vision. And finally the fact that he uses past tense here could mean that he felt like using past tense on this occasion and not in the other occasion, your unnecessarily reading too much into this. What about the phrase "Friday of the Month", what could it mean? I dislike speculating, but I will do it anyway to appease you. To begin, this phrase could have no words missing more especially when TB Joshua used a similar phrase in another one of his prophecies only on that occasion he replaced month with week, it doesn’t seem very likely that he would repeat the same mistake like that, it is more plausible that he did it on purpose. Therefore the possibility is there that the phrase is complete as it is and has got no missing parts. Or it was supposed to read as you have suggested or as the 22th day of the May month, note that we are both speculating here, we can be equally wrong, if you want to reduce this to speculation then my alternative carries the same merit as yours , seeing that neither of us has proof for our respective guesses at least in the written form, that is the original phrase bears neither your additions or mine. If my alternative is correct then TB Joshua’s prophecy was incredibly on the dot. The fact that there was no plane crash reported between, 19 April and 26 April, further weakens your rendition, the first plane crash in that period of time took place on a Friday as TB Joshua said the next month and this agrees with my rendition. Furthermore Tb Joshua was right about the type of aircraft, the type of family, not it could have been any kind of family, as I stated in an earlier post, but Tb Joshua specifically mentioned a heterosexual couple with their children and others, he was right about the day and lastly the small amount of time that elapsed between the prophecy and its fulfillment makes this prophecy all the more incredible and reduces the chances that it was some wild guess. The reason for why you so adamantly want to deny this prophecy is that you never viewed it with an open-heart, you will claim you have but you and I both know you didn’t, it is because you have a prior-commitment to naturalism and you don’t want to nullify that commitment. Unlike you I did look at this prophecy your way, in fact many times but I just cannot ignore all the points I have mentioned above that make it impossible for this to have been a wild guess. To bluegenes: I don’t know what your point is with that photograph, are you trying to suggest that that isn’t a private jet? Here is the link to your photograph and another link to a photograph of a very-similar looking plane identified as a private jet. Wikimedia Error And http://i.ehow.com/...to/Articles/4644445/82549-main_Full.jpg Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by PaulK, posted 09-24-2009 3:19 PM | | PaulK has replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 71 of 297 (525867)
09-25-2009 3:17 AM
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My Assessment
My conclusions were spot on, from the very first word.
post 1:
There is evidence for the supernatural realm all-around, the thing is when such evidence comes the skeptics’ way the skeptic, which encloses th So far this has been demonstrated by the atheists, at the outset they jeered at the evidence and poked fun at it, a little later they appeared to simmer down a little and started looking for loopholes in the evidence, which they have failed to do, I have presented ample evidence concerning the prophecies, Wikipedia supplied original sources like newspaper articles concerning the miracles and the atheists despite go on claiming that the miracles and prophecies are genuine without providing a shred of evidence of their own. They make claims and somehow think that those claims count as proof for their their theories. so far I'm not impressed with their efforts to falsify the man TB Joshua. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 72 of 297 (525869)
09-25-2009 4:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Huntard
09-25-2009 3:11 AM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
See those thins in fornt of the wings? THose are called propellers, and they're indicative of planes that are NOT jets. Your "miracle man" got this one wrong, Cedre. Turbo-props are actually a development of the jet engine. And the plane in question is a turbo-prop, turbo-props are basically referred to as jets with propellers. The link in my previous post calls this aircraft a private jet. turbo-props are also now and then referred to as Turbo Props-Jets AIRCRAFT WHOLESALE: Wholesale Airplane, Multi Engine Aircraft, Turbo Props-Jets, Turbo Prop Jets, turbo prop jet, turbo prop planes for sale, turbo prop aircraft, turbo prop plane, turbo prop aircraft for sale, turbo prop airplanes for sale, plane for sal, http://www.avolaraviation.com/aircraft/turbo_prop.shtml, heres an image of a turbo-prop jet: http://www.avolaraviation.com/images/aircraft_kingair.jpg, even Time Magazine calls it a turbo-prop jet here: Page not found | TIME. see also: http://www.jetcharter.com/articles/02/private-jets So the prophet wasn't wrong afterall. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Huntard, posted 09-25-2009 3:11 AM | | Huntard has not replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 74 of 297 (525875)
09-25-2009 4:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 73 by PaulK
09-25-2009 4:30 AM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
My quote:
Because they are your words not TB Joshua's words, your twisting a man's words to get him to agree with your theory. No I am not. YOU are makign false accusations as an excuse to avoid the evidence. You sure have by adding your own thought to the phrase. I'm not making any false accusation, where did I make one please be specific. Is pointing out that you blatantly added your own word to a the phrase a false accusation, my gosh, anyone with eyes can see that you have added a word to the phrase.
You can't reoffer your alternative for the missing word, because you haven't offered one. I can my alternative was that he was reciting his vision, and you have yet to show that this isn't possible.
If the best you can do is argue that one line of evidnece is inconclusive - and that is all you are doing here - you have not got much of a case. what one line? The whole passage fits into the idea that the prophet was reciting his vision, I broke down the entire passage not just one line. If he felt like using past tense this time, it was his choice, the use of past tense doesn't always mean that something had already happened and you for some reason is unwilling or fail to see this. for example I can have a vision of my dog jumping over a fence and I can phrase it in two different ways; the first way is, My dog will jump over the fence, the second way is I saw my dog jump over the fence, and TB Joshua originally uses the the first way and employs the second way on the second occasion.
You seem very happy to speculate that the only reaosn he sued the past tense on the 26th was that he was reciting his vision - when he did not do so on the 19th. This fits the evidence, are you forgetting a private plane did crash on the 22th of May a Friday, that matches the prophets description, the passengers also match his description. so May alternative seems more likely than yours, you don't want to see this because it throws your entire world view out of whack.
Yet - so far as either of us knows - the phrase is meaningless. Thus it is more plausible that he missed a word. (And of course "the month" would be April, and the only Friday left in April would be the 24th...) Exactly as either of us knows, not as TB Joshua knows, since he uses the same phrase elsewhere only replacing "month" with "week" So the phrase is most likely deliberate, and not a mistake.
Or it was supposed to read as you have suggested or as the 22th Friday of the May month,
I have not suggested any such thing. It is far more likely that only one word was missing, and the assumption that he meant to give that specific date begs the question. I'm sorry it doesn't if you feel like you can add the word last to the phrase I am at liberty to also add what I want as long as the phrase is still meaningful.
note that we are both speculating here, we can be equally wrong, if you want to reduce this to speculation then my alternative carries the same merit as yours , seeing that neither of us has proof for our respective guesses at least in the written form, that is the original phrase bears neither your additions or mine.
Except for the fact that my suggestions involve no implausibilities, and both of yours do. What implausibilities does my suggestion involve? Neither of us have evidence for our additions, not you not me, all we have is guesswork as far as our additions are concerned. furthermore when considering that TB Joshua, guessed right the type of plain, type of passengers and the day (Friday) my rendition seems more likely. In fact on his website they accept my rendition because its the one they present. Yours only rides on your own understanding of what the Prophet meant not on any real proof, you have to add words and twists meanings in order for your interpretation to work.
It is far more likely that only one word was missing, How did you determine this?
I am not the one making false accusations, ignoring evidence or begging the question. You are doing all of these. A quote about motes and beams comes to mind You sure have as this post demonstrates.
As for your response to bluegenes the photographs clearly show that the plane in question uses propellors, rather than jets. Did you not see that ? They are clearly visible. i deal with this in a previous post. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 4:30 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 75 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 5:19 AM | | Cedre has replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 76 of 297 (525882)
09-25-2009 6:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 75 by PaulK
09-25-2009 5:19 AM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
You sure have by adding your own thought to the phrase.
As I sated, all I did was offer an entirely reasonable idea of what Joshua meant. I did not use quote marks, and the words that YOU attributed to Joshua were clearly distinguished form the rest. Its not reasonable, its not because there was no plane crash on the day you're alluding to. And you have only added the word so is seems like the prophecy failed.
I'm not making any false accusation, where did I make one please be specific.
You are falsely accusing me of twisting Joshua's words. You did you added the word "last" and that's not in the original quote of TB Joshua.
Be truly honest - you just don't like the idea that Joshua meant the 24th April, because that makes the prophecy a failure. That is the ONLY reason for your accusation. You would like that wouldn't you? I reject your theory based on the fact that nowhere does TB Joshua mention a date, he only gives a day, You have added a date. You have added to his words and that is suspicious. I have no reason to think that he meant Friday the 24th, especially when the crash didn't happen on that day, and also because TB Joshua doesn't mention 24 anywhere in his prophecy, all he offers us is the day Friday.
And anybody with eyes could see that I used bolding to distinguish MY word from Joshua's. Thus your accusation is false. My accusation was that you added a word to the man's phrase and is adamant that that is what he meant, how can you be so sure that that is what he meant? Can you answer me please what great proof do you have that he meant Friday, the 24th of April when he doesn't even mention that date? Anyway my accusation is in line with what you have done, and is thus not false.
Only if you assume in advance that the "prophecy" is likely genuine. However to do so, begs the question. Since I am taking an honest, unbiased look at the evidence I cannot make that assumption. Your actions speak louder than your claim. I will let our audience decide this one. It doesn't beg the question, TB Joshua gave a prophecy and his prophecy was fulfilled within a short amount of time. This should raise suspicion, what you want to do is brush all of this aside because you are terrified of the implications. And your argument has been nothing but biased. You have added to the prophets words and you base your entire argument on that addition you made, therefore your argument simply crumbles based on the fact that your addition isn't in the original document. All you have is, "it might have been there", that's poor really poor, I'm basing my argument on what TB Joshua actually said, your basing your argument on what he probably said. I think its getting clearer now.
Exactly as either of us knows, not as TB Joshua knows, since he uses the same phrase elsewhere only replacing "month" with "week" So the phrase is most likely deliberate, and not a mistake.
That is not a rational argument. It is just speculation. "Its not a rational argument? another unsupported claim, where is the irrationality in my argument? Tb Joshua used the same wording elsewhere and therefore he probably knows what it means.
It is just speculation. And what have you been doing this whole time? Giving facts. Hardly, your argument is based on an unsupported claim, namely that the prophet committed a word from his prophecy, and then you go so far as to declare what this word is, and thing that that somehow proves your point. Now that is what is known as begging the question.
That is obviously wrong. Just because I can make an entirely plausible suggestion as to what Joshua likely meant does not give you license to put up any change you like as if it were equally plausible. If you can offer evidence - real evidence that does not rely on begging the question, that Joshua DID mean 22nd May, now would be a good time to do it. I have shown why you are obviously lying here. Your so called entirely plausible suggestion is not based on any evidence but on wishful thinking, "Friday of the month" could mean the "22th Friday of the May month" our additions have one thing in common, both are based on speculation, call it plausible speculation, its still speculation, and the word plausible doesn't give any more weight to speculation, as plausible things don't always happen. As an example its plausible that you might be wrong about this. If you claim that's not plausible than you must possess all truth to know that, because you must know what TB Joshua was thinking when he made that phrase. So therefore your argument is based on a shaky foundation, not evidence. I on the other hand don't resort to speculations, I don't add words that I think should be there, I don't presume to know what TB Joshua meant, or anyone for that matter, because there is a BIG chance that I may be wrong.
The idea that the phrase is complete - when you have absolutely no evidence of that is implausible. The idea that Joshua meant to give a specific date rather than something like "last" or "fourth" is implausible. I'm sick of your little word games frankly; do you think i'm an idiot , your date is just as specific as mine, when you say last Friday of the month, you are referring to the 24th of May, aren't you, that's the date you have been arguing for all along, right. So your addition also results in a specific date, therefore by your own admission, since you end up giving specific date your argument is implausible.
Because missing one word out is very easy. Missing out the whole date is more difficult. Not if he deliberately left it out, on purpose.
You sure have as this post demonstrates.
Again you make a compeltely false accusation. No I gave the evidence for that accusation in the paragraphs that preceded it. That is why I said "as this post demonstrates" Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by AdminModulous, : edited quote tags to make them work. Take a look at how I nested them so you know how to do it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 5:19 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 77 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 6:26 AM | | Cedre has replied |
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 78 of 297 (525884)
09-25-2009 6:27 AM
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I'm not going to heed your speculations any longer, a blunt look at Tb Joshua's prophecy reveals the following things. A crash will happen on a Friday. The crash involves a family plane, a particular kind of family family is involved in the crash.
This is what we get from a blunt unbiased look at the evidence, and lo and behold not long after this prophecy is made a plane meeting that description, not some jumbo jet, or airliner, crashes on the day stated in the prophecy, not on some Wednesday or Tuesday, a family meeting the description given in the prophecy are involved in the crash, not a gay couple, or childless couple. This to me is a amazing, its just amazing. Okay now I'm going to move away from this prophecy and give another prophecy that was fulfilled just as the previous one. I have noticed though that the other prophecy I presented hasn't been dealt with yet, I guess its way too specific to be questioned.
"PLANE CRASHES 17-28TH" On Sunday, 11th January 2009, Prophet T.B. Joshua gave a prophetic warning concerning events that were to happen in the coming days within the same month of January. Here is the prophecy: Those who are flying, please take Psalm 91. If you are going to fly: 17, 27, 28, in between 17, 27, 28. Write it down. Please, Psalm 91 and be in the Spirit because by the time you are in the Spirit and this Psalm, you observe it, there will be [a] mark in you. Even when you are about to be checked in, something will happen that you will not be able to go — if it is going to take your life. It’s either you miss your flight; it’s either something happens. 17, 27, 28. From that 17 — the whole thing from 17 to the end of the month. Please, in the air, take note and fast and pray. Use Psalm 91, verse 7, 8, 9. Take note of verse 7. ‘A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked. If you make the Most High your dwelling even the LORD, who is my refuge.’ In confirmation, the events foretold by Prophet T.B. Joshua began unfolding six days later, on Saturday, 17th January 2009, a military helicopter crashed in the African nation of Gabon, killing at least seven of the 10 soldiers onboard. A final soldier remains missing. Searches are continuing," the French presidency said in a statement, adding the two survivors were out of danger. There was no immediate information on the cause of the crash, but French President Nicolas Sarkozy has ordered a speedy inquiry, the presidency said. Just as the man of God, Prophet T.B. Joshua prophesied, this event occurred on the 17th of January, the first date specified in the prophecy. Ten days later, the prophetic message was further confirmed as a FedEx cargo plane crashed in Lubbock, Texas, on the 27th of January 2009, the second date specified in the prophetic message delivered by Prophet T.B. Joshua. Officials say the plane came down at the end of the runway, veered off and caught fire. Both crew members survived and walked away from the plane. They were then taken to hospital for examination. Further confirmation came on Wednesday the 28th of January 2009, the final date mentioned by the man of God, Prophet T.B. Joshua in his prophetic message, when a red, single-engine Marchetti airplane carrying two men crashed at the west end of the runway in Santa Monica Airport, California, USA at about 5 pm local time. The plane crashed on the west end of the runway and caught fire, said Ian Gregor of the Federal Aviation Administration. The fire destroyed most of the plane. Friends of the two men identified them as the general manager of an aviation website and a world-travelling Internet business development consultant. Paulo Emanuele, believed to be 46, was the general manager of the airliners.net website. Martin Schaedel, believed to be about 23, was a consultant to FareCompare, an airline fare comparison website. The confirmation continued through to the end of the month of January 2009 when a succession of three plane crashes occurred in the USA and Colombia. The first of these consecutive incidents took place on Thursday 29th January 2008, at about 3pm local time, when a small plane crashed in an open pasture near Anahuac, about 30 miles east of Houston, Texas, USA, killing all three people onboard. Another plane crash that caught the world’s attention occurred on Thursday 29th 2009 — when a plane coming into land in Colombia completely flipped upside down when a strong gust of wind caught the back end. The passengers of a light aircraft which flipped on landing walked away with barely a scratch. The next day on Friday 30th January 2009 at 1pm, a twin-engine plane crashed near Tri-State Airport, Kenova, West Virginia shortly after the pilot radioed that the aircraft was low on fuel. Three people were killed. These three aviation crashes which took place on the last days on January 2009 confirm the words of prophecy given by Prophet TB Joshua who instructed the congregation and viewers to be in an attitude of prayer and fasting right to the end of the month of January.
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Cedre
Member (Idle past 1519 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: 01-30-2009
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Message 79 of 297 (525886)
09-25-2009 6:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 77 by PaulK
09-25-2009 6:26 AM
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Re: An honest look at the evidence
In other words, your only reason for rejecting it is that it makes the prophecy a failure. That's just begging the question again. I gave more reasons. please read my posts in their entirety and not in bits and pieces. If you had read my post you would have sen that I give other evidence, word-for-word point out why my evidence doesn't make the cut.
According to you he only uses a SIMILAR phrase elsewhere. And you haven't given ANY reason to connect that to your conclusion. THAT is why it is not a rational argument. show that I have failed to connect it to my conclusion, if he uses the same kind og\f wording more than once than he probably does it on purpose. show that this is possible. And why it is irrational.
Again I am not simply offering speculation beased on what I owuld like to be the case. All I offered was a reasonable possiblity - better than any of the alternatives you have offered.. And your summary ignores - yet again - the other lines of evidence, which you have not yet answered. Again claims don't equal proofs. you have done more than offer a reasonable possibility you are adamant that it is the only possibility. And what have I ignored please be specific.
"Friday of the month" could mean the "22th Friday of the May month"
That would be an unusal phrase in English, No it isn't, again you are neglecting the fact that this isn't an Englishman. Please don't ignore the rest of my post answer it. your lack of reply to my post is indicative of your inability to answer it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 6:26 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 80 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 6:58 AM | | Cedre has replied |
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