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Author Topic:   A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm
Michamus
Member (Idle past 5187 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


(1)
Message 5 of 297 (525682)
09-24-2009 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
09-24-2009 5:09 AM


Just another scam
Cedre writes:
However there is a church in Nigeria that is proving the exact opposite of what these many skeptics and atheists are stating.
So let me get this straight. There is a "Church" in NIGERIA that is claiming miraculous events are occurring that DIRECTLY contradict known medical studies on the very subject.
AHJ - Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer
Background: Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials.
You are wanting me to believe the words of a "pastor" in NIGERIA, despite this clear clinical evidence provided through a reputable source that states the contrary (it's the American Heart Journal for heaven's sake!).
Are you familiar with Nigeria and it's infamy in the way of scams like these (419 scams for example)? These type of programs are rampant throughout the web.
I was a member of 419eater where our job was to counter Nigerian Scam Artists. I can't tell you how many "church" websites I have run into. How many "Katrina Charity" sites, and even 9/11 "victim funds".
Frankly, this website stinks of the same stench all those other sites did. In fact, I am going to brush the dust off my 419eater e-mail account (random Google account) and get to the bottom of this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 5:09 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 8:59 AM Michamus has replied

  
Michamus
Member (Idle past 5187 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


Message 105 of 297 (525935)
09-25-2009 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Cedre
09-24-2009 8:59 AM


Re: Just another scam
Cedre writes:
Your very upset I wonder why?
It mostly has to do with seeing scam artists that function identically to how this man is operating. With that, I have seen countless people promised "Hope" and "Charity" in exchange for MONEY. There have even been people cleaned completely out, for the mere promise of prayer "healing" of their cancer.
The fact that you have to go to a NIGERIAN scam site to find substantiating statements for your claim, is quite telling of your lack of any real evidence.
Cedre writes:
you want to refute documented evidence of fulfilled prophecies with a mere statement
I'm sorry, but "documented evidence" is NOT the same as "claims written down on a NIGERIAN website".
It's pretty funny for someone to classify an American Heart Journal citation of exact relevance to the topic as a "mere statement".
--------------------------
Funny, your own citation in the OP stated this:
quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._B._Joshua#Controversies
The Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN), an umbrella association of Nigerian Pentecostal Churches, refused admission to the Synagogue Church, denouncing T. B. Joshua as an impostor
Kind of hard to build up his legitimacy, when one of the few legitimate institutions on Nigeria won't endorse him.
Edited by Michamus, : Did some more research
Edited by Michamus, : Corrected the quote box

How hard they must find it, those who take authority as truth, rather than truth as the authority.
-unknown
It's not what you know, it's if you know how to find it.
-Me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 8:59 AM Cedre has not replied

  
Michamus
Member (Idle past 5187 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


Message 110 of 297 (525957)
09-25-2009 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Cedre
09-24-2009 8:59 AM


Still... Just another scam
I have decided that since I have yet to receive a response from any of Joshua's constituents, that I should contact a more legitimate source.
I have e-mailed the Nigerian Federal Ministry of Health with a query. It reads as follows:
quote:
To Whom It May Concern:
I have recently received information about individuals who claim to have been "cured" of AIDS and or HIV. These individuals have presented a certificate with your letterhead, denoting a "HIV Positive" in a pre-dated memorandum, and then a "HIV Negative" result in a more current version of the same letterhead. I am deeply interested in knowing if these are legitimate patients received by your ministry, in that I am unaware of any present cure for AIDS or HIV. Your response would be most appreciated.
XXXXXX, XXXXXXX
Health Care Specialist, USA
Addendum:
Attached is a photo of one of the individuals aforementioned.
The USA denotes US Army.
Now, I will be sure to attach any response I receive from the Nigerian FMOH. I suspect strongly that this will be a case of charlatans that have created false documents. The handwritten forms, absent of rubber stamp, or seal authentication demands rejection of the forms until legitimized by the authority these individuals are claiming to have acquired these forms from.

How hard they must find it, those who take authority as truth, rather than truth as the authority.
-unknown
It's not what you know, it's if you know how to find it.
-Me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 8:59 AM Cedre has not replied

  
Michamus
Member (Idle past 5187 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


Message 157 of 297 (526252)
09-26-2009 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Cedre
09-26-2009 6:20 AM


Cedre writes:
his prophecy is still too incredible
Nay sir. Your ability to believe in the complete absence of substantiating evidence, a completely vague and obscure rambling is incredible.
I need not wonder what makes you believe the way you do, because I was once that way too. You know the truth about God, and we are merely denying the OBVIOUS evidence. Sadly though, what you consider evidence, is only an illusion of words. A dance of equivocation that shows how limitless the human imagination can be.
Cedre writes:
no amount of babbling will change the fact that the prophecy was very detailed
It is no more detailed than the supposed Nostradamus Prophecies. In fact... I can prove to you that I am a prophet too.
You will have an accident. I am seeing that it will happen on the 12, 27, or 29th. Praying won't help, because it is God's will. All I can say is avoid being near or in traffic on those dates.
Now Cedre... imagine you get in a traffic accident on the 29th of December 2027. Holy crap! I was right on all three numbers! I am truly a prophet! (29/12/2027)
Or you could get in hit by a truck tomorrow. Wammo! I am truly a prophet! I warned you that you should stay away from traffic on the 27th, and my prophecy came true!
Do you see now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Cedre, posted 09-26-2009 6:20 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Cedre, posted 09-26-2009 12:18 PM Michamus has replied

  
Michamus
Member (Idle past 5187 days)
Posts: 230
From: Ft Hood, TX
Joined: 03-16-2009


Message 177 of 297 (526302)
09-26-2009 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Cedre
09-26-2009 12:18 PM


Disappointing...
That's it? That's the best you can do?
Take one line that really had little relevance to my main point, and counter it with "Nu uh"?
As for:
Cedre writes:
the clear proof of this man's prophetic gift
I have yet to see any. I even provided you with an identical prophecy provided by me, and an explanation of how there are an almost infinite amount of ways it can be fulfilled.
No matter how you slice it, a few vague statements, and a couple of numbers does not equal a concise prophecy.
Cedre writes:
if you were really open-minded and after the truth, all the evidence I have brought forth thus far would have been enough for you
That's just the thing though, isn't it?
I am completely open minded, and accept that this individual could be right (I even at one point in my life believed in these con artists and their "gifts"). Trouble is, he doesn't really give me much to work with in proving him right. He doesn't even give me a reliable date... just some 2 digit numbers and some statement about a plane.
The difference though is you can't accept that he may be wrong. No amount of evidence placed before you will convince you. People with your dedication of blind faith typically won't even believe the conman's own confession of deceit and manipulation.
It isn't the need for prophecy to be real that drives you.
It isn't the need for God to be real that drives you.
It isn't even the need for an afterlife that drives you.
It is the need to be the one lone voice that knows the "truth", and is willing to say that truth against all opposition.
In fact, the greater the opposition against your ever increasingly wild ideas, the better it makes you feel. It makes you "realize" that you really must be right, otherwise why would all these people seem to be so angry? I mean, it can't be because you are so blatantly wrong that words can't describe it, and you are completely unwilling to acknowledge even the slightest bit of skepticism... can it?
Cedre writes:
The short amount of time that elapsed for his prophecies to actualize would have already caused you to pause and wonder, really hard about a few important issues.
Perhaps, if I hadn't provided a direct example of how my own prophecy for you could possibly be fulfilled tomorrow.
And what would those important issues be? The fact that there is yet another conman in Nigeria, and people believe him?
---------------------------------
By the way, I am still awaiting a response from the Nigerian FMOH on the "Prayer Healings" and whether people have really been cured of HIV/AIDS in their country. I probably won't have it for a couple more days, if they are anything like the bureaucracy we have in the United States.

How hard they must find it, those who take authority as truth, rather than truth as the authority.
-unknown
It's not what you know, it's if you know how to find it.
-Me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Cedre, posted 09-26-2009 12:18 PM Cedre has not replied

  
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