Is Christianity Polytheistic?

Bollocks.If you were writing a book about theism and belief in gods (more fool you) how would you recognise such concepts in different cultures? By them telling you?Bear in mind that most such cultures won't use the term "god" at all. In fact anthropologically studied primitive cultures in many cases have no actual word for the supernatural so intertwined with observed phenomenon are their theistic beliefs. Yet we still manage to recognise their belief in that which we call "gods" all the same. How do you think this occurs? Or are you denying that such concepts can be recognised unless actually specified by those who believe in them?

Has Satan never created anything at all? Hell? Demons?If not you may well have found a get out clause for Christians even if it requires them to deny that most of the gods of history and Hinduism are gods even in non-Christian terms. Which would of course contradict most of what Dr Sing and Slevesque have said in this thread about recognisng different forms of theism as believing in god concepts.In fact it would probably deny godhood to the vast majority of well established god concepts past and present.AbE - This creation definition also allows for the possibility of man being called god if we create "life from non-life". For example.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

As said earlier I have been reading The Evolution of God by Robert Wright. The following comments are all from that single source (which is broadly sympathetic to theism but difficult reading for those with a belief in organised religion) and if challenged will require further investigation. Having said that here are some observations on the polytheistic origins of Christianity from that source which suggest that Yahweh evolved from being a powerful but not supreme god amongst a Caananite polytheistic pantheon to that which we know today.The concept of god in the bible itself evolves from an anthropomorphic entity who actively controls aspects of nature (in a very pagan god style fashion) to a the far more scientifically disprovable concept of a transcendental and ethereal being hovering over us all.In the poems that most scholars consider to be the oldest parts of the bible Yahweh is not a creator. He is a destroyer. A warrior god amongst many other gods. The ancient hymn to Yahweh "man of war" asks "Who is like thee, O lord among the gods?"In psalms 82 "God has taken his place in the divine council. In the midst of the gods he holds judgement". And Yahweh himself acknowledges these other gods when addressing the council a few verses later when he says "You are gods".The Caananites had a number of gods. Chief amongst them was El. El as CEO of the Caananite pantheon precedes Yahweh and the Christian monotheistic god in the historical record. Yet in the Hebrew version of psalms 82 the divine council is written literally as "the council of El". In fact throughout the Hebrew texts El is used to refer to God and the very name Israel meets the standard of the day whereby a gods name was included as the end part of of a placename. Even the much used phrase "children of Israel" is by many considered better translated as "sons of El".Further evidence of the merger between El and Yahweh concepts is given by the sixth chapter of Exodus in which God says: "I am Yahweh. I appearsed to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as El Shaddai. By my name Yahweh I did not make myself known to them"But the merging of creator god El with war god Yahweh is not the end of the biblical story. The bible refers many times to Yahweh in ways that indicate that he has adopted much of the mythology of his arch (in biblical terms) false enemy deity Baal. About Yahweh the bible says:"You broke the heads of dragons in the waters. You crushed the heads of leviathon". Yahweh will "swallow death forever". Yahweh has "wrath against the rivers" and "rage against the sea" as well as having "trampled the sea with your horses" and the "light of your arrows" whilst also referring to "the gleam of your flashing spear".All of which can be directly attributed to the mythologically epic battles Baal had with dragons and those gods of the sea, death and other such pagan-like godly entities of the Caanannite pantheon . In addition the bible refers to God as one "who rides upon the clouds" whilst the Caananite name nickname for Baal is "rider of the clouds" and in the biblical god-off that Elijah arranges Yahweh performs some very Baal like tricks to once and for all show himself as the one true god.Does this prove anything? Probably not. But it should give even the most monotheistically devout something to ponder.

The Semang Hunter Gathers as discussed in the book I am currently reading The Evolution of God by Robert Wright are an example of a culture that fuses the concept of the supernatural with the observed without any form of verbal differentiation. Can we not all broadly recognise such concepts based on common criteria or characteristics? Given differences in language and culture how else can such concepts be recognised. A member of the semang hunter gatherers is unlikley to walk up and say to you "I believe in gods. Please write about me" is he? But does this mean there is no form of belief he can hold that we recognise as theistic?The point is not can they identify their concepts as godly. But can Christians who advocate the idea that Slevesque (amongst others) has put forward (namely that "every culture around the world have the concept of God/Gods") identify such concepts?If they cannot identify such concepts - Then they are talking nonsense when they make these claims.If they can identify such concepts - Then they need to say what criteria or characteristics are common to such concepts and explain why Satan is not included as such a concept. If you consider the term god without recourse to any particular religion what do you think of? How do translators recognise concepts such that they get translated to the word "god" from other languages? When we debate whether or not belief in god is innate in new born babies what concept of "god" are we talking about?Yes - Each religion will impose it's own qualifications and subtleties. But so what? Satan is a god in every way that is used to define gods in every objective use of the term.The only reason we are even debating this is bacuse Christians don't like that conclusion. That is my point.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Expect?I expect Christianic resistance. And I expect to confront it by pointing out their contradictory definitions and assertions.I have replied to your other more interesting post with my own findings on the polytheistic roots of Christianity.And we haven't even got onto ceremonies such as communion and their Dionystic roots yet......Lots to come in this thread. Aside from berating Christian contradictions. I hope.

No. I define mums as those who give birth to people.Likewise there is a concept of of god that we all, including Christians when they are discussing theism more objectively, refer to. Wrong. Instead let's consider the "general definition of god" in action shall we? So is Slevesque talking about the Christian God in these examples? If not what concept of god is he talking about? And why would Satan be discluded from that?

Then you are missing the point of my point. Of course Christians are going to rebrand the term god to uphold their own self proclaimed assertions of monotheism. But to anyone not applying the specific Christian definition, including Christians when they are discussing theism more objectively, biblical Christianity is polytheistic. Not monotheistic.Frankly Dr Sing has summed up the contradictory nature of the Christian position on this better than I ever could: So Satan is excluded from the general concept of god because the specific Christian doctrine doesn’t like it.
Which is analogous to me defining mothers as Those who give birth and then when realising that this will include your mother whom I don’t like hastily adding but your mother doesn’t count because she didn’t give birth to me

Satan is the "object of veneration and worship". Satanic worship

I will look this up tonight and get back to you. He may be talking bollocks. I may have understood it wrong from his book. Or he may have something you haven't heard of before. Indeed. I am learning a lot.

No. I keep acting as if we can recognise theism and god concepts without recourse to specific religious definitions. Exactly as Slevesque did when discussing the cultural universality of belief in God/Gods.Was he suggesting that belief in the Christian God is culturally universal? So what religion-independent concept of god was he talking about? How can we recognise religion or belief in gods where those who believe don’t use the English word god? Of course Christians are going to rebrand the term god to uphold their own self proclaimed assertions of monotheism. But to anyone not applying the specific Christian definition, including Christians when they are discussing theism more objectively, biblical Christianity is polytheistic. Not monotheistic. My emphasis. So tell me on what basis is Satan discluded from qualifying for this more objective and general concept of god that is religiously independent?

Of course not by Christians. But do Christians need to worship, or even believe in the existence of, Apollo in order to recognise Apollo as a god concept?We can recognise theism and god concepts in vastly diverse cultures, ancient and modern, without recourse to the particular distinctions of specific religions or the need for those believers to use the English word "god".How do we do this?And aside from Christian assertion and protestation in what sense does the concept of Satan not qualify as such? Of course Christians are going to rebrand the term god to uphold their own self proclaimed assertions of monotheism. But to anyone not applying the specific Christian definition, including Christians when they are discussing theism more objectively, biblical Christianity is polytheistic. Not monotheistic.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

We can recognise theism and god concepts in vastly diverse cultures, ancient and modern, without recourse to the particular distinctions of specific religions or the need for those believers to use the English word "god".How do we do this?And aside from Christian assertion and protestation in what sense does the concept of Satan not qualify as such?

When we talk about theism objectively (i.e. without doing so through the specific lense of a particular religion) we can all recognise god concepts in a variety of cultures regardless of language. Christians themselves, including those taking part in this thread, do so all the time when discussing theism in general. (see quotes below)When discussing theism in these objective terms the concept of Satan is as worthy of godhood as any other such concept. So in what objective religion-independent sense is biblical Christianity not polytheistic? So is Slevesque talking about the Christian God in these examples? If not what concept of god is he talking about? And why would Satan be discluded from that? The last thing I am claiming to be is an arbiter of what is god. What I want to know is how anyone can recognise theism or god concepts in other cultures without also concluding that Satan is just such a concept.

When anthropologists discover or discuss cultures that have demonstrated theistic belief in god concepts does a belief in the existence of teacups qualify?I believe in the existence of teacups. Yet I would not say I am a theist. Nor would I say that teacups are a god concept. And I doubt any future anthropologist looking back at my diaries would do so either. No. I am asking how we objectively recognise forms of theism and concepts of god.

If Christians will objectively and religion-independently consider Loki (for example) as a god concept why won't they (with the same objective hat on) accept Satan as a god concept? And thus (objectively speaking) accept that Christianity is polytheistic?Frankly Dr Sing has summed up the contradictory nature of the Christian position on this better than I ever could: So Satan is excluded from the general concept of god because the specific Christian doctrine doesn’t like it. Do biblical Christians believe that Satan exists?If he was a character in any other religion would biblical Christians consider Satan to be a (albeit false) god concept?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.