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Author Topic:   New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution.
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 37 of 433 (602129)
01-26-2011 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taq
01-26-2011 11:29 AM


Re: Check your premise
I think i am misunderstood. My theory does not preclude randomness in mutations.Neural system mostly gives general directions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 01-26-2011 11:29 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 01-26-2011 3:55 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 38 of 433 (602131)
01-26-2011 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by New Cat's Eye
01-26-2011 1:27 PM


Re: Check your premise
Catholic Scientist writes:
My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Or maybe you're wrong You ever consider that as a possible answer?
' Of I may be wrong. But we all have to try to find logical answers. Somebody may find abetter one later."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:49 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 40 of 433 (602135)
01-26-2011 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Blue Jay
01-26-2011 10:09 AM


Re: Check your premise
Bluejay writes:
Hi, Zi Ko.
zi ko writes:
Empathy! it is the key word to this remark. Mother antilopewill feel this need. Next offspring will have to be faster.
Given this, we would predict that younger siblings will be fitter than their older siblings, because empathy will allow the mother to subconsciously improve her later offspring in relation to her earlier offspring.
I'm quite certain that this prediction will fail.
I am surprised! I mean hundreds or thousands generations later.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Blue Jay, posted 01-26-2011 10:09 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Blue Jay, posted 01-26-2011 3:25 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 41 of 433 (602137)
01-26-2011 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
01-26-2011 1:49 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:
Catholic Scientist writes:
My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Or maybe you're wrong You ever consider that as a possible answer?
' Of I may be wrong. But we all have to try to find logical answers. Somebody may find abetter one later."
You posit that evolution employs some kind of communication between parent and offspring while totally failing to consider that the majority of species have no means of this communication.
My answer was hypothetical. Would you like me to say that God's Will is the link between these spescies? Or there is no any communication at all and blind chance is the origin to their creation and evolution?
The logical response to this is not "well maybe they do have the communications". The logical response is "oh yeah, it looks like I was wrong".

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 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:49 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 4:59 PM zi ko has replied
 Message 49 by zi ko, posted 01-27-2011 1:35 AM zi ko has seen this message but not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 46 of 433 (602242)
01-27-2011 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Blue Jay
01-26-2011 3:25 PM


Re: Check your premise
Bluejay writes:
Hi, Zi Ko.
zi ko writes:
Mother antilopewill feel this need. Next offspring will have to be faster.
Bluejay writes:
Given this, we would predict that younger siblings will be fitter than their older siblings...
I mean hundreds or thousands generations later.
我有一點困惑。
HoThe mother will feel the need for faster offspring, and this feeling will translate through the rest of her progeny until, hundreds or thousands of generations later, it makes the next offspring faster?
What is your mechanism for the inheritance of these empathic states? w does what the mother feels upon seeing her offspring killed translate into evolution many generations later?
"Mother's knowledge enhanced during next generations through experience and natural selection makes her neural system to give signals to DNA level structures to make apropriate preparations up to final change. Any random mutations which accelerate evolving through natural selection is used to the final goal"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Blue Jay, posted 01-26-2011 3:25 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Blue Jay, posted 01-27-2011 10:02 AM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 47 of 433 (602246)
01-27-2011 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Taq
01-26-2011 3:55 PM


Re: Check your premise
Taq writes:
Neural system mostly gives general directions.
What are these general directions, how are they communicated, and what are they communicated to?
" Offsprings to be fitter.Through neurons.To DNA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 01-26-2011 3:55 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Taq, posted 01-27-2011 11:23 AM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 48 of 433 (602255)
01-27-2011 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Larni
01-26-2011 5:35 AM


Re: Mechanism?
Evolution is result of interaction between organisms and enviroment.This means communication and knowing. Reaction presupposes knowing.
Collective subconscious it i rather a matter of belief.Anyway it fits with empathy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Larni, posted 01-26-2011 5:35 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Larni, posted 01-27-2011 8:02 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 57 by Blue Jay, posted 01-27-2011 10:14 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 59 by Coyote, posted 01-27-2011 10:35 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 66 by Taq, posted 01-27-2011 11:25 AM zi ko has seen this message but not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 49 of 433 (602256)
01-27-2011 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by zi ko
01-26-2011 2:12 PM


In general I agree.I should say I don't know. There is so much we don't know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 2:12 PM zi ko has seen this message but not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 50 of 433 (602258)
01-27-2011 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by New Cat's Eye
01-26-2011 4:59 PM


In general i agree. i can't give clear answers.I should say just i don't know.From a point and then you have to choose between different beliefs.Our effort is to make our chosen one more logically accepted by ourselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 4:59 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2011 9:30 AM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 51 of 433 (602260)
01-27-2011 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Taz
01-26-2011 8:24 AM


Re: Check your premise
what is instict, if not unconscious accumulated knowledge which had led to reflective action?Octapus has not been always color blind, if it does matter at all,

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 Message 30 by Taz, posted 01-26-2011 8:24 AM Taz has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 53 of 433 (602279)
01-27-2011 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Larni
01-27-2011 8:02 AM


Re: Mechanism?
You ask me me to explain the self evident.It couldn't be done otherwise.
I coluld name it hypothetical theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Larni, posted 01-27-2011 8:02 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Larni, posted 01-27-2011 11:41 AM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 56 of 433 (602283)
01-27-2011 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by New Cat's Eye
01-27-2011 9:30 AM


It isn't amatter of believing or not to evolution.Evolution is accepted by me as a fact.It is about on which rules does it runs.My theory tries to expand natural explanation to the logical point, after which my stand will be a matter of belief.

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 Message 54 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2011 9:30 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

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zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 58 of 433 (602286)
01-27-2011 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Blue Jay
01-27-2011 10:02 AM


Re: Check your premise
I can't answer about my mechanism. It is amatter of neuronal biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Blue Jay, posted 01-27-2011 10:02 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Blue Jay, posted 01-27-2011 10:36 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 01-27-2011 11:30 AM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 61 of 433 (602291)
01-27-2011 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Blue Jay
01-27-2011 10:14 AM


Re: Mechanism?
Idon't exclude mutation or natural selection as evolutionary factors.Simply i add another one,which fits with some known facts (punctuated equilibrium and stasis by St GOULD and ELDREDGED, and collective unconscious by C YOUNG). Couldn't they work together?

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 Message 57 by Blue Jay, posted 01-27-2011 10:14 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Blue Jay, posted 01-27-2011 10:56 AM zi ko has seen this message but not replied
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zi ko
Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 64 of 433 (602295)
01-27-2011 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Coyote
01-27-2011 10:35 AM


Re: Mechanism?
Coyote writes:
Evolution is result of interaction between organisms and enviroment.
Correct so far.
This means communication and knowing. Reaction presupposes knowing.
Absolutely false.
Evolution relies on selection pressure acting on populations.
In any given population some individuals reproduce more successfully, and some less so. This, looked at over long spans of time or many generations, adequately accounts for all the effects you are trying to explain.
It is false according to known theory. But with Neurogenic evolution it is true, without saying that i exclude natural selection and mutations. They can co exist and give better explanations to known facts.

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