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Author Topic:   How Does Republican Platform Help Middle Class?
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 263 of 440 (611358)
04-07-2011 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by crashfrog
04-07-2011 4:27 PM


Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
Brainwashing your child is certainly an action.
Teaching your children is the action. Only when you disagree with what is taught do you call it brainwashing. When you claim that a child is being brainwashed you are making a moral judgement on what is taught, not on the action itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by crashfrog, posted 04-07-2011 4:27 PM crashfrog has replied

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 266 of 440 (611361)
04-07-2011 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by jar
04-07-2011 4:56 PM


Re: Today's Republican Party is simply ignorant
And the "Us" should be expanded based on the specifics of the issue.
To bring this more in line with the OP . . .
From my own experience, no public policy is going to benefit everyone individually. There are always trade offs. So where do we draw the line? If raising the taxes of the top 10% benefits the other 90% is that allowable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by jar, posted 04-07-2011 4:56 PM jar has replied

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 344 of 440 (611825)
04-11-2011 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by marc9000
04-07-2011 8:28 PM


Okay, so you have one area (elimination of insurance company involvement) where cost would be saved in a government run system. Is that the only one you have? If so, after considering the brand new cost of more government employees to run the new system, do you still see a large enough difference in those two amounts to solve all the problems of medical costs in the U.S.?
Do you think that private insurance companies do not spend any money on administrative costs? Also, the government will not be pulling money out as profit, so there is a cost saver right there. After there is a single payer system the next step would be in decreasing cost at hospitals. This is more easily done if everyone can collectively bargain as a single population instead of piecemeal like it is now. We should also look at government run hospitals like the VA system.
But the U.S. has higher rates of obesity than people in other western nations that do have government health care. Should addressing this problem be part of government health care? Should the government pass ‘sugar control’ laws? I don’t think so and suspect you might not either, but I think government health czars would be much more likely to impose sugar control, than would insurance company lobbyists.
Nothing is stopping these type of regulations right now, and there is no one stopping advocacy of healthier diets. I really don't see what this has to do with anything.
You said student loans, not tuition and cost of living. I was merely making the point that amounts of student loans have a lot to do with ‘wants’, rather than needs.
Student loans have to do with tuition outpacing the cost of living to the point that middle class families can no longer "pay as they go".
It IS strange, because you don’t seem to like traditional America. James Madison once said; "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." That’s the spirit of U.S. government that Tea Partier’s would like to see restored.
I want to fix modern America, not the America from the 1700's. If you want to live in the America from 1700 I would suggest building a time machine.
I’m saying that just because life is more complicated than it was in the horse and buggy days, doesn’t mean that government has to grow to unaffordable levels to oversee the new complications.
I am not saying it should either. Other countries spend around the same amount as we do per capita, and yet they are able to provide health care for everyone while we only do it for the poor and old. Obviously, we are spending too much in other areas, namely the defense budget.
With a few rare exceptions, we got along fine without the EPA until 1970. I admit that the time for it had probably come by then. But like any government agency, it got too big and intrusive.
So we shouldn't even try? Sorry, but a defeatist attitude is a poor excuse.
Countries with government run health care don’t have as many high tech medical devices like CAT scans or MRI’s as the U.S. does. The U.S. has one of the highest cancer survival rates in the world. Do you think these characteristics of U.S. medicine will stay the same, or get better, when the government takes it all over?
The US has a lower lifetime expectancy, higher infant mortality rates, and overall poorer healthcare than countries with government run health care. All the while, we are spending twice the money for inferior healthcare.
What little public transportation that we do have, (compared to all of it) it’s still not single payer.
It is very similar to healthcare in other countries. Taxes are used to fund the bulk of the cost while users are expected to fund a small percentage of the total cost. To use my own city as an example, a day pass on the bus is 2 bucks. If all tax funding were pulled from the system that same pass would need to be 9 to 10 dollars.
Nothing socialist about public roads. Public posting of roads is in the U.S. Constitution.
We use tax money to build and maintain public roads that are open for everyone to use. Why can't we do the same for healthcare?
Most effective for what? Curing disease and keeping people out of pain, or running them through the system, keeping everything moving, pacifying doctors and assistants who may not be happy with the allowance the government gives them? Do doctors of different skill levels all make the same money?
Curing disease. If a more expensive procedure saves more lives then the more expensive procedure is recommended.
It’s usually the people themselves through the free market of the insurance company they choose to deal with, or their families that decide in the current U.S. system. It’s true that the system may run more smoothly if a bureaucrat in Washington makes some decisions however. A stranger’s death is much easier to take, isn’t it?
How many middle class families could provide for a child with a chronic condition without insurance, or afford a $250,000 doctor bill if the breadwinner has a heart attack or gets cancer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by marc9000, posted 04-07-2011 8:28 PM marc9000 has replied

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 348 of 440 (612448)
04-15-2011 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Phat
04-15-2011 5:31 PM


Re: Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair....
One mans idea of fair is another mans idea of famine. Who should determine what is fair? Is the concept of fairness applied to the population -at-large and then divided by that same number to arrive at my fairness quotient?
That is a very fair question.
I think fair can be defined as having an equal shot at the "American Dream". A fair wage should allow you to own a house, own a car that isn't in the shop every 3rd month, not have to worry about getting sick, put your kids through university, and retire at a feasible age (65 or so).
In my opinion, jobs offering a wage that will allow you to do this are becoming rarer and rarer with time. Not only are the actual wages of the middle class faltering, but the costs of housing, healthcare, and education are increasing at rates much higher than inflation. Now the children of the baby boomers (my generation) are being told that Social Security will not be there when they hit retirement age. So in addition to the stagnation of wages we have to yank out an additional percentage of our income so that we can retire at a decent age, if ever. I think I have already mentioned the cost of university and healthcare, so I will only mention it in passing here.
What I started this thread out asking is how Republican policies will reverse this trend. From everything I have read thus far, Republicans don't want to reverse this trend. In fact, they want to keep tipping it towards the most wealthy and away from the middle class.

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 Message 347 by Phat, posted 04-15-2011 5:31 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Jon, posted 04-15-2011 6:29 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 350 of 440 (612451)
04-15-2011 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Jon
04-15-2011 6:29 PM


Re: Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair....
I think the 'American Dream' needs to be thrown out. It is worthless, and a danger to the peace and security of the planet.
I would suggest just the opposite. When the middle class is denied opportunities like ownership of property, education, and well being the result is civil unrest and a lack of security.
I don't think owning a house should be a goal just for the sake of owning a house. Public transportation needs to be entirely reworked so that the vast majority of folk living in cities and towns no longer need to rely on personal transportation.
Public transportation is simply not a viable option outside of population centers. I do regret that suburbs became the norm. Building up instead of out would have been better in the long run. However, the damage is done at this point. Also, there are plenty of people who live in rural areas where public transportation is simply too expensive for the number of people it would service.
If a house is owned, a very small one, like the size of a moderate mobile home, certainly will suffice for almost any family; cars that are owned can be simple, compact, and get good gas mileage.
I agree. I would put more stress on the quality of the housing than the square footage. I live in a smaller city where a lot of people live in houses with less than 1,000 square feet and small lots. I really like these types of neighborhoods. However, they aren't that much cheaper than the 1,500+ square foot homes in the outlying areas.
I don't know where Americans got this idea that everything they own needs to be sprawling and pimpin', but it's absolutely disgusting. My best guess is that they were brainwashed into thinking it... probably as children.
And you will notice that I never advocated this anywhere in my post. What I am advocating is some stability and an ability to supply an education to our children. It doesn't need to be austere, but certainly not pimpin'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Jon, posted 04-15-2011 6:29 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Jon, posted 04-15-2011 8:26 PM Taq has not replied

  
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