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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Seashells on tops of mountains. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The bible is evidence to those who know its true. It claims to be a witness. To say only non biblical evidence may apply is to make a statement on this witness. Anyways it comes down to your side to show good evidenve for claims. Creationism easily shows this fails. The bible is an ancient tribal myth. It has been shown to be in error in a number of instances. Biblical literalism is better than artificial respiration at keeping ancient beliefs alive, but that doesn't make it so. Evidence for claims? Science has lots of evidence--whole libraries and museums full of evidence. Creationism has only apologetics and religious belief, which doesn't stand up to scientific evidence. Science easily shows that creationism fails.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The boundaries are the timetable for events. The evidence for the k-t line being the biblical line is the nature of the rocks. Above the line they are more volcanic or less strong indicating different processes of power. THen the fossil life assemblage makes a clear difference that otherwise would be if from the one biblical flood event. This is absolutely false. The K-T boundary is over 60 million years ago. The biblical scholars place the flood at about 4,350 years ago. How do you explain that difference? (Answer: you don't--you just make it up as you go.)
Whatever is the rock type below the k-t line in these regions indicates its deposition nature. so simply it didn't include the sea areas materials if they are missing.
All nonsense. Belief isn't evidence. (See signature.)Then the later upheaval may first of covered the land with sediment from the upheaval in the land or from massive volcanic sediment . Then also from this the mountains rose without seashells being around. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined:
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The bible is evidence to those who know its true. Replace the word "Bible" with any other book. "Harry Potter is evidence to those who know it's true" The Iliad is evidence to those who know it's true. Saying that it's evidence to those who believe it is evidence is circular. It's not supportive of the claim that it is actually evidence.
Anyways it comes down to your side to show good evidenve for claims. Creationism easily shows this fails. No, creationism denies reality. I find it extremely disingenuous of you to be criticizing science while using a computer. I don't criticize your fairy tales using prayer.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Zen,
Zen Deist writes: Any biblical reference for massive earthquakes after the flood? Chapter\verse\quote? quote: I don't know if the entire dry earth being divided would be classified as an earthquake, or a division of the land mass. But in the days of Peleg the earth was divided. Until then the land mass was in one place according to the Bible.
quote: There was a patch of dry land that was called earth. I can find no place where the land was divided between Genesis 1:9 and Genesis 10:25. I hope that satisfies your question and request for information. You do agree that at one time there was one land mass that formed the land masses we have today don't you? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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saab93f Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: |
As pandion wrote a bit earlier: "However, if the massive earth upheaval that you imagine actually happened in the short time that is required to fit into your mythology, that much earth movement would have produced enough heat to reduce the entire surface of the earth to molten rock."
I know that GDI is the standard answer and thus applicable to any problem. However it would be quite nice to get some or any answers on how exactly were the laws of physics altered allowing plates to move at rapid speeds WITHOUT creating much heat or massive mountain ranges rising without anyone noticing and/or thinking enough of that to write it down. This will (and should) probably be answered in detail in the thread about recent flood but I will not hold my breath.
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Admin Director Posts: 13040 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Hi Robert,
I continue to hope that you'll support your ideas with evidence. For example, it has been mentioned to you that some creationists like yourself believe the K/T line represents the flood, while other creationists believe it is the Cambrian explosion. Backing your position with evidence means describing the evidence that tells you it is the K/T line and not the Cambrian layers that represents the flood.
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Admin Director Posts: 13040 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
As we're approaching 300 posts it's time to think about closing this thread. It's several years old and only recently became active again. I think it would be a good idea to allow the thread to continue another hundred messages or so for the current participants to try to get through some of the current issues. I won't initiate the thread closure process until 400 messages.
Some have focused squarely on the topic of seashells on mountain tops, and I'd like to see those efforts continue. The number of participants has obscured the important points, and it might be a good idea if someone from each side could restate the key issues for their point of view.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi saab,
saab93f writes: As pandion wrote a bit earlier: "However, if the massive earth upheaval that you imagine actually happened in the short time that is required to fit into your mythology, that much earth movement would have produced enough heat to reduce the entire surface of the earth to molten rock." First things first. Zen asked for scripture text that said there was a great upheval after the flood. I provided that text. Do you disagree that the text in the Bible I quoted provides such information? Now to your statements as to heat that would be caused by such rapid movement and how it would be disapated. There is enough water in the earth's mantel to fill our present oceans 7 times. How and when did that water get there? Now as to the OP and seashells on the mountains I find in Genesis 1:2 a land mass we call earth that is covered with water. This land mass was covered by water a long time before the flood of Noah, and for an undetermined duration. And yes I have no problem in believing that God can do anything, as I believe Genesis 1:1. Any entity that could create the universe would have the ability to do anything. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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The way writes: Obviously you're not a geologist, then. Flood geology is not geology, it's wishful thinking. No science involved in "flood geology". Just an old book. I have been reading this thread as flood geology is fascinating for me,...TheWay writes: It's easy to state. Evidence is what counts. Any empiracal evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago? Without evidence it doesn't exist, like the tooth mouse. ...and it seems that what hasn't been brought up is that the flood doctrine usually states that mountains were formed after the flood.TheWay writes: No, as there's no empirical evidence for such a flood a few thousand years ago. Do you think that all those thousands of experts around the world haven't investigated? Wouldn't this account for the seashells ...TheWay writes: Luckily we know what deposits laid down by water look like. Studies of those rocks do count. We don't need analogies. Just facts. ...and wouldn't the water analogy....TheWay writes: Do you think that all those thousands of geologists all over the world don't know what a formation deposited by a flood (big, intermediate, small, local, local, regional, continental, hemispherical, global) would look like? What is a logical falacy is if creationists try to tell you that a pyroclastic deposition was "deposited by a global flood"!
.. be some form of logical fallacy as it doesn't really pertain to diluvial geology?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi pandion, small point
. He uses a GPS device to measure how far he runs. The computer program showed that he had run across the tops of several buildings about 8 ft. to the west of where he had actually run. GPS at its normal best accuracy (for civilians) is to the about 3 meters, or about 10 ft. An 8 ft error is normal. Mine shows a circle rather than a point, with the circle radius = accuracy. I've also had mine tell me I was 20ft above sea level when I was standing with my feet in the water at high tide ... didn't know I could fly . Enjoy. Edited by Zen Deist, : flyingby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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pandion Member (Idle past 3028 days) Posts: 166 From: Houston Joined: |
Except that every other time he had run that route it showed that he had run along the street. After the quake, it showed that he had run across the tops of the buildings to the west of the street.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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H Zen Diest
The GPS is amazing! It is fantastic when I do cartography. It is accurate to about 10 metres, just as claimed on the box my device was sold in. Just read the instructions. Easy. The GPS is probably the second best thing the US military has ever provided the whole world! The internet is number 1. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi ICANT
I don't know if the entire dry earth being divided would be classified as an earthquake, or a division of the land mass. Divided by what? Divided between sons? ... between people? ... between nations? No reference to ground shaking, which is rather symptomatic of earthquakes, yes?
You do agree that at one time there was one land mass that formed the land masses we have today don't you? Which one? Pangaea - Wikipedia
quote: In other words, the LAST supercontinent broke up well before the k-t event.
I hope that satisfies your question and request for information. Nope. I want to see Robert Byers show where earthquakes are mentioned. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi saab93f, and welcome to the fray,
As pandion wrote a bit earlier: "However, if the massive earth upheaval that you imagine actually happened in the short time that is required to fit into your mythology, that much earth movement would have produced enough heat to reduce the entire surface of the earth to molten rock." Here's a tip: type [qs=pandion]However, ... molten rock.[/qs] and it becomes:
pandion writes: However, ... molten rock. Enjoy
... as you are new here, some posting tips: type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote: also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window. For other formatting tips see Posting TipsFor a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi again Robert Byers,
Still no reference to earthquakes being mentioned in the bible.
Above the line they are more volcanic or less strong indicating different processes of power. Assertion of opinion is not fact, and has amazingly minute (if not invisible) ability to alter reality. Do you realize that the rocks that form the rockies date older than the k-t event, yes? Geology of the Rocky Mountains - Wikipedia
quote: So all the rocks are older than the k-t event, and most of the mountain formation occurred before the k-t event, with some occurring during the k-t event and some final touches afterwards -- with the dates involved using the same dating methodology for the mountains and the k-t event. So you still have not answered my questions (Message 281):
Then the later upheaval may first of covered the land with sediment from the upheaval in the land ... So there should be a buried of seashells and then land layers upside-down from the layers below the seashell layer, with the oldest layers on top, yes?
... or from massive volcanic sediment . No such thing. Volcanic activity results in (igneous) rock from solidified lava, cinder or ash.
Then also from this the mountains rose without seashells being around. IF the land the mountains were formed from, were underwater during the flood ...THEN there should be seashells around ... yes? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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