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Author Topic:   Modern Civics
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4450 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 216 of 236 (648480)
01-16-2012 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Jon
01-15-2012 10:35 PM


Re: Dat's Perdi' Fascist of You...
Hello Jon,
What if absolutely no one met your standards for intelligence to be allowed to participate in their government?
Why would I set the standard. There are plenty of people more qualified than myself.
If no one passed, then I dont pass either, which means that nothing happens.
If I did set the test and I was the only one to pass, I would reissue the test, as something went terribly wrong.
I do not doubt that a test system would have its faults, I am looking to improve the current system, not replace it.
This is how I see the future in film - Idiocracy - Wikipedia
Do you believe that the current system is without fault? Feel free to just answer for the USA but consider the planet as a whole.

I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong
Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot
"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson
2011 leading candidate for the EvC Forum Don Quixote award

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Jon, posted 01-15-2012 10:35 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Jon, posted 01-16-2012 9:02 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

  
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4450 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 217 of 236 (648482)
01-16-2012 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Jon
01-16-2012 12:19 AM


Re: Dat's Perdi' Fascist of You...
Hey Jon,
Top-down approaches never work. Enforced change is neither stable nor effective.
Are speed limits not effective at reducing road tolls? Democracy is a top down appraoch. You vote the guy/lady in, hopefully legitimately, and he makes decisions. Often not the decision he said he/she would make.
And this goes beyond the simply immorality of enslaving people's minds in some quasi democratic dictatorship of forced votes to the simple mechanics of what's effective and what isn't.
Enslaving people minds? Forced votes? quasi democratic dictatorship? what the hell are you talking about?
Forcing people to behave differently simply doesn't work. In the end, all you can do is educate them and give them the tools needed so that hopefully, when the time comes for them to make those important decisions, they will want to make the right ones and not make the right ones simply as a matter of being forced to.
Is this what you think is happening in the USA now? Do you think that the democracy in the USA currently allows people to do the right thing?
Remember this guy?
Though we've been emphasizing voting, people every day make hundreds of decisions far more lasting and important than the decision of who's going to sit in what chair for the next few years. From where they shop to how they live, people's lifestyle choices can have far-reaching impact on the the planet and the critters that inhabit it. Forcing people to change only makes them miserable, and then we lose the whole battle of trying to make the world a happier place.
Do you think that this is reality? Forcing people to change is sometimes a requirement. Would the north have not invaded the south and forced them to abolish slavery because it would make them sad?
Civic duty can only start and end with the individual, because it is the individual who holds the power to change themself.
So when the people who dont give a fuck finally become the majority, where will we be?

I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong
Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot
"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson
2011 leading candidate for the EvC Forum Don Quixote award

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Jon, posted 01-16-2012 12:19 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Jon, posted 01-16-2012 10:08 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

  
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 4450 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 220 of 236 (648499)
01-16-2012 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Dr Adequate
01-16-2012 1:41 AM


Re: Dat's Perdi' Fascist of You...
Hello Dr A,
However, in a democracy, you have at least a chance of getting the interests of the broad mass of the people put above the interests of a few. If instead you put power in the hands of a few, then you're pretty much screwed from the get-go.
What if we get good people to make the decisions?
h, you want a philosopher-king. I volunteer.
I'm not sure that "altruistic" quite describes me, but at least I'd be even-handed in my reign of terror.
Can we keep the current metric system. I recall a post a while back where you suggested we should introducve a standard distance of measure, the Dr Adequate, and it sould be 9 inches.
By and large people do seem to be better off in democracies than dictatorships.
Have we had a technocracy or a meritocracy to judge this by? Or a combination of these? Have we decided that democracy in its current state is the best we can do?
Yes, well, people don't like fulfilling their responsibilities. If they did, they wouldn't be called responsibilities, they'd be called hobbies.
People not only avoid their reponsibilites, the put large amounts of effort into new and exotic ways to avoid them. The prison populations continues to grow.
Why would they need to?
Poor wording on my part. My point was that it is common to see people complaining about when they believe their rights are being violated. But you never see people out with banners trying to get people to uphold their responsibilities.

I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong
Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot
"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson
2011 leading candidate for the EvC Forum Don Quixote award

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-16-2012 1:41 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by frako, posted 01-16-2012 8:31 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

  
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