Morality without god

What seargent? You are lying.Don't lie about the marines you fucking twat.

More bullshit.
90%? Really?

The medal of honor has been awarded to 627 individuals posthumously, out of 3,476 awards received.So let's do the math.90% of 3476 = 31283128 individuals who fell on a grenade - 627 individuals who recieved a medal posthumously = 2501 heroes who jumped on a grenade and walked away.Does that seem reasonable?Edited by Eli, : No reason given.

I am saying things like empathy, compassion, the inclination to self-sacrifice etc. etc. etc. were selected for because they facilitated the ongoing propagation of genes in our ancestral environment. I am saying selfish genes can produce individuals who are capable of selfless acts. By sacrificing the individual in a way that facilitates the ongoing survival of the gene pool. You have said more than that. You have said that genuinely selfless acts effectively don't exist. Yet this is demonstrably untrue. According to your theory our much cited soldier who consciously and deliberately sacrifices his life to save the lives of others who are completely unrelated to him shouldn't be able to exist.Conversely - According to the selfish gene theory I have cited the soldier is perfectly capable of acting in this personally selfless way because he has been equipped by evolution with the moral equipment to make this selfless decision.

Wait, doesn't "altruistic" mean that it is beneficial to others at the expense of the individual? When me and my brother share the altruistic gene that causes me to sacrifice myself for his survival.

Your brother is a part of your fitness and is a vehicle for distributing your genes (most of them).I'm not sure if altruism has agene, so much as it is a behavior, but from an evolutionary standpoint, it does benefit you to keep him alive, even if it means you die.By extension of shared fitness, you would actually be protecting yourself and your store of genetic material. Throwing yourself in front of a bullet for your brother is not selfless.

A nobody drill instructor.
But he may have said posthumous awards.None of which matters in regard to the essence of this as an example of brothely love which shows that it is not solely maternal love that will get people to ignore their iown self interests in the name of saving others.It never ceaes to amaze me about losers who can not make intelligent and efective come backs.They assume there is a rule that says if they can find just one little itty bitty unrelated and insignificant statement from the other side of debate, they can call general Bull Shit.It as stupid as if that discredits the other side's argument because, in their weird and self serving mind, they have conclusively shown in the little item that the other side is wrong about something.Matthew 23:24
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

I'm sure my brother would appreciate that description. It benefits your genes. I'm not convinced it benefits you as a person (aka your "self") because you as a person no longer exist. Selfish genes can produce individual "selfs" who are capable of selfless acts. It is genetically selfish but personally selfless. Our genomes and our "self" are not synonymous (as demonstrated by the existence of genetically identical twins who are not the same "self") What if the person was instead completely unrelated to you?

Exactly...Its funny that Liberals like these people here will claim that man, by nature is good.The conservative says the opposite and supports the idea of Original Sin, even if not religious.
That conservative believes that we need social and cultural rules that limit person behavior because it can and will lead to hurting others.But here, they admit to believing that no such goodness, no altruism actually is a trait in our species.They will argue that people do things to benefit themselves, even if it manages to also benefit others.Christ said that inside us is the seed to the good shepherd, a conscience that could gets to turn the other cheek, or give away our coat.
He said this was inside us, we could have a personal relationship with that side of us, or that archetypal entity that has evolved as part of our psyche.Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

My individual fitness? Well I was over simplifying. It doesn't have "a" gene, but evolved behavior comes from genes. How does it benefit me individually? It doesn't help me as an individual.

The article I linked to in Message 214 says just that: Scientists Probe Human Natureand Discover We are Good, after AllOriginal Sin is a doctrine that tricks people into thinking that they really need what the religion is selling. If humans didn't have some innate goodness, then their success as a species before the invention of social and cultural rules would have never happened. The fact that we evolved far enough to develop social and cultural rules proves that we were capable of surviving without them. Even other non-human primates display innate goodness. I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I don't think I've seen that admitted here. I think you've misunderstood. What are you referring to? Everyone should know that. I was taught in Kindergarten that helping others helps yourself. And that goes against the conservative position you state above that we don't have that seed in us but instead need rules to be good.

It is a Trait.Mendel demonstrated that Traits exist which we have figured out to be tied into our genetic make up.To say that this trait has a genetic source is scientifically true as it is for all traits.

really? Give us a name. This "sergeant" is suddenly a nobody drill instructor, yet has the task of figuring out the percentage of medal of honor awards given out for falling on a grenade. Give us a name, if you can, you lying POS. No one said that altruism is limited to motherly love. Nice strawman. Dude, you have been caught in a blatent and obviously lie which was both related and significant, being that it was the heart of the purpose of your post.. The only appropriate response is to call bullshit. Your argument is dicredited simply because it was not true and because you purposely lied.You discredit your own claims simply by making them without knowledge of the subject or fact-checking. You are a pseudo-intellectual that tried to pull the wool over everybody's eyes with a fabricated statement.It was bullshit and you know it. Don't blame others for holding you accountable when you cry wolf. You've got nobody but yourself to call a loser and to think poorly about.Edited by Eli, : No reason given.

Because your brother survives, giving him the opportunity to spread his, and most of your genes around.His survival benefits you in the same way that having children benefits you. The furtherance of your type, culture, beliefs, values, character, ect.Immortality through the passing of genes.

Then you concede.The instinct of Motherly Love clearly establishes the presence of a trait in women that is otally foreign to self serving acts under certain situations.Since you are dumb enough here to admit this is not limited to just women and mothers, it is then, clearly, a characteristic or trait found in men, in general.LOL Jump on that grenade,...