Morality without god

You don't deserve the time it would take to hunt down evidence and you don't need it anyway, you just want to be a jerk. Not that it takes any work on your part, obviously it comes naturally to you.

Because I wont accept you hateful rants unquestioningly? You have the unmitigated gall to complain about me saying you are pitiful and then you talk to me like this? You might want to do something about that log.

Sure we can discuss this. As I said previously, context means everything. If you just read this portion of a log: You would think that this rancher was one of the most terrible men you ever heard of. But when you read it in the context below you are going to think he was one of the bravest most loving husbands and fathers you have ever heard of. So you can see "G. Squeaker," how important context is. So in understanding the passage in Numbers 31, I have to give you some context. As the story above shows, even just looking at things from the natural, death is not always the worst thing that can happen. In certain situations living is much worse. And then if you also have knowledge that there is more to life than just "this life," then death takes on an even less severity. The back drop to the story in Numbers 31 is that the people of Israel were seeing the Canaanites and Moabites doing some pretty horrific things. Even to their own children. Often those people, because of their idol worship, would either sell their own children as slaves and sex slaves, or burn them alive as offerings to their gods. (See Deuteronomy 12:31) But even when people fall into this horrific of sin, God always gives them warnings and plenty of space to repent before bringing final and swift judgment. (See Deuteronomy 20:10)You've probably heard the story of Jonah and the big fish. Well that is a story of a similar group of people, the Ninevites, who had gotten in to horrific idol worship. Those people hated the Israelites and the feeling was mutual. But God had mercy on them and sent Jonah the prophet who was also an enemy (an Israelite), to go and warn them to repent. But Jonah wanted the people of Nineveh to be judged by God and die so he went the other way. And... well you know the story. He ended up being swallowed by a big fish (not a whale) and escorted there by God anyways. Those people actually did repent and were spared by God. Jonah wasn't happy. The point I'm making here is that God doesn't just look down at a group or nation of people and go "I don't like them" (squish) and flatten them with His thumb. He is very merciful and long suffering. But there does come a time when He finally brings down hard and swift judgment. This can come in the form of natural disaster, a rival nation's attack and victory, or just a miraculous event. In the case of the inhabitants of Moab and Canaan, God finally brought judgment using the Israelites as His instrument. (See Deuteronomy 9:4) You should also be made aware that the Bible teaches us that there is an age where children are not accountable for sin. (See Deuteronomy 1:39) When a child dies at that age he or she immediately goes to heaven.That was the back drop now let’s look at the prequel (if you will) to the story in Numbers 31, which is Numbers 25. This text tells us that the Moabites where using their women to lure away the men of Israel from the One True God to take part in the morbid idolatry of Moab. The Israelites were commanded of God to exact judgment then but they disobeyed. This led to severe life or death consequences for the Israelites. Numbers 31 is where they finally obeyed God. The young boys were killed because it was known they would grow up and follow they ways of their parents and probably try to bring revenge on the people of Israel. What is more humane to you? To let the young boys grow up past the age of accountability, fall back into sins of their parents and go to an eternal hell? Or take them now and spend eternity in heaven? The women were killed because they had been the ones enticing the Israel men away. However God was merciful and spared the lives of the young girls who would neither be a threat to Israel and could likely come to faith in the True God of Israel.One final note. The young virgins were not taken to be raped as some try to accuse. Rape was and always has been considered an evil sin by God and would repulse any real man of God. Edited by Just being real, : No reason given.

I really can't accept that murder is a moral answer ever - as I stated previous I have worked educating people who could be deemed the worst of the worst and I would wish no harm upon any of them (even though I have been sent to the Emergency room several times in my career). Education and sympathy are far more merciful and just routes.I know first hand what it takes to "redeem" someone and threats/warnings are certainly not the way to help or reach anyone. If I were a more simple tribes man maybe I would see things in a more barbaric and simple way - but I'm not a simple tribes man and I'm not an all powerful being...... But I reckon I know better than both.

There are 3 towers, each one has a princess trapped in it.Along come 3 knights to rescue the 3 princessThe first is a conscript - he fights his way to the tower and rescues the princess cause he will face the death penalty if he returns empty handedThe second has been promised great reward and the princess's hand in marriage if he succeeds, he'll get wealth, titles and of course sex for his effortsThe third was just wandering past and saw a lady who needed help, he rescued her because she needed help and it was the right thing to doWhich Knight showed good morals?

Not really a good example. Knights Code of ChivalryThe assumption is that the first two would not have helped if they had just happened by. Now if they wouldn't help unless they benefited, that makes a difference.A fireman is paid to deal with fires and rescue. He can't deal with a fire he doesn't know about. If he happens upon a fire, I'm pretty sure he would deal with it. Is he not showing good morals when he's paid to fight the fire?Not really cut and dried. Too many ifs.I'd say all three with just the info you supplied.Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

Dude it's an allegorical story - u can't seriously be that anal, I am merely suggesting that to cite ones motivation for good and proper deeds is either reward or fear is not true morality and may in fact remove opertunities for truely good and morally upright behaviour.

What do you recommend for the victims, in regard to future acts to come to them?

All of them showed "good" morals, i.e.; positive social behaviors.Only the third demonstrated Christian love for his neighbor.

I'll see your graph and raise u national statistics,For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1For 2010, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.6, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 2.9For 2009, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.9, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 2.8For 2008, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 5.2, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.3

Of course man must hate the behaviors of people which work towards extinction of the species in the long run or short, because survival is the very purpose of life:Deuteronomy 12:31
Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire (of abortions) to their gods, (Eros, Istar, Ba'al).

I would say only the third acted truly morally and he is the atheist in this story (I should know I wrote it)Fear of hell is akin to the death sentence in my storyHope for reward is akin to seeking heavenHaving a mind clear of either is akin to atheismU can't reinterpret this story cause I bloody well wrote it!

LOLYour stats show the threat of a lwa that is not enforced.
My Stats show the record when EXECUTIONS rise.
Note that the rate of murder fell almost in half in Texas after@ ten years of ACTUALLY executing these guys:YEAR 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996Texas 4.4 4.9 5.4 5.6 5.9 5.9 6.2 6.1 6.4 6 6.2 5.9 6.1 6.8 6.8 7.7
The number of executions in Texas number is four times as many as Virginia (the state with the second-highest total of executions in the post-Gregg era).

1) He is a christian whether he admits to it or not, because he loves his neigbor:John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.2) Morals are rules for proper conduct, not measuring devices for the intent or motivations of the person obeying them.

How many murders have u ever met? U should meet some of these people before posting figures..... But let's get back to qouting stuff at each other, from amnesty internationals USA branch I give you;" The murder rate in non-Death Penalty states has remained consistently lower than the rate in States with the Death Penalty.The threat of execution at some future date is unlikely to enter the minds of those acting under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, those who are in the grip of fear or rage, those who are panicking while committing another crime (such as a robbery), or those who suffer from mental illness or mental retardation and do not fully understand the gravity of their crime."