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Author | Topic: Is It Bigoted To Have A Supported Opinion? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
hooah writes: I will, but before I do let me ask a couple of questions. pictures of things that are untrue and miscategorize the group of people you claim to belong to. I mean really, break down every one of these into your own version, in your own argument and back it up with evidence.1) In regards to the term Christian who gets to categorize them? Can non Christians categorize Christians? Can only one club out of the many denominations categorize other clubs? In short, what is the standard that can or should be used from which to properly categorize another group unlike ones own? My argument is that the Word of God is the standard by which to compare. Others would argue that logic, reason, and human wisdom and/or consensus should be the standard.Critics will again say that I pick and choose which scriptures to use to support my argument. in regards to your accusation as to untruth and "miscategorization", I ask you again...according to whose standard?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
PaulK writes: Quite simply, Jesus Christ. Humans have no capability to judge each others behaviors apart from Christ. even our vaunted logic, reason, and reality is meaningless without Christ.
Unless you are proposing an official body to make such determinations doesn't it come down to individual judgement anyway ? What alternative could you offer ? Then your position is hopelessly confused, failing to realize that logic reason, and what you call human wisdom must be used to apply any standard you propose, but cannot in themselves define a standard without some basis for doing so. Anyway, what standard do you propose ? Belief in Jesus Christ. Only through Gods redemption and redemptive power does global society have any sort of hope to make it. you will see the ever increasing evidence that I am right.
The implication here is that you intend to be dishonest. And that you intend to "justify" that dishonesty" by trying to imply that YOUR opinions on the matter have a more-than-human source as you do so often. I am being as honest as I can. I have no need to try and win arguments simply to validate my ego. I honestly care about each and every one of you.
Phat to Ringo writes:
Which "rock" do you suggest we build our support upon?Ringo writes: And thus I "preach" to build our rock upon Jesus Christ and not upon human wisdom. Apart from Him we can and will do nothing.
A tangible one. An objective one. One that a disabled black lesbian carpenter can deal with. Ringo writes: You are all welcome to support your own arguments with whatever building material that you choose to use. We have free speech in this coffee house. The topic is about support. I think supporting belief with more belief is like building a house on sand. Now...getting back to a request.
Hooah212002 writes: Pretty sure "watered down messages that have nothing to do with scripture" includes posting pictures of things that are untrue and miscategorize the group of people you claim to belong to. I mean really, break down every one of these into your own version, in your own argument and back it up with evidence. So the question and challenge from Mr.Hooah is that the phrases in the picture I posted are essentially untrue, am I right? I need not attempt to defend the accusations on the right...concerning modern day Christians. I see ample evidence that those characterizations are quite true...at least in the church in America. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with social justice and actions...it has been said in this forum that Christianity is at its best by what you do and not by what you say. Additionally, many of you claim that you also do acts of random kindness and mercy to those less fortunate than you and that you do it with no religious agenda and with no expected heavenly reward. You do it because it is the right thing to do...and for that I applaud you. You are more like the early believers...though you remain unconvinced of the reality of Jesus Christ and I'll not say a word against you. Good Job! Lets examine each statement: Willing To Sell Everything They Had For The Gospel--Most of them didn't have much. This belief lost steam once Constantine made Christianity P.C. but it continued through the monastic order for several hundred years. There were a few notable exceptions...Faussets Bible Dictionary writes: Scriptural Support: Acts 4:34,Matthew 13:46. Keep in mind the audience to whom the scripture is being spoken to. In modern context, the idea is more about what is in the human heart. Don't ever let your possessions keep you from helping someone whom is placed in your path or whom your conscience compels you to help.(I am still working on this one...I was and am greedy and selfish by my sinful nature)
ZACCHAEUS---The Lord had shortly before encountered the rich young ruler, so loveable, yet lacking one thing, the will to part with his earthly treasure and to take the heavenly as his portion. He had said then, "how hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God;" yet to show us that "the things impossible with men are possible with God" (Luke 18:18-27), and that riches are not an insuperable barrier against entrance into heaven, the case of the rich yet saved Zacchaeus follows. Beaten, whipped, murdered,deprived,imprisoned for advance of Gospel--The Apostle Paul was of course imprisoned. Jesus Himself took on the shame that human society by nature had (and still has...just watch the culture of no shame that we embrace now) To be honest with you, though...I don't have a lot of evidence personally for this one. I live in a prosperous country and am left alone. It is my choice to advance the Gospel as I understand it and I also have no proof that doing the right thing without fervent belief is in any way superior. So I concede this point to you critics...for now.
Taught Sound Doctrine,studied to show thyself approved to God. The early believers were careful to preserve sound doctrine. It is my belief that the many Bibles we have today are the result of such preservation...careful study between them shows very little discrepancy in wording, which is resolved through the communion of the Spirit within the believers of today. The problem is when the church attempts consensus with secular society.
Believers Diligent To Learn All Scripture jar always gets on my case asking me whether I've even read the Bible. I am still reading, and am open to other opinions of what the scriptures mean...though I also test the spirits and can tell when someone wishes knowingly or unknowingly to water down a message or to attempt to re-frame it according to cultural consensus. We can discuss this on an individual scripture by scripture basis, though we likely would go on for years.
willing to pick up cross I am still not exactly sure of the symbolism of this quote. Honestly, I would be scared to die...but we all die eventually anyway. I suppose I try and do my best on a daily basis. Many days I fall short and many things that I have said in these forums I later regret having said. I focus on my relationship with Jesus on a daily basis.Oftentimes, this relationship is tested by how I relate to all of you. I wont compromise my argument unless internally compelled, but I try and treat each of you with respect as humans and don't seek to insult or "one up" anybody. The rest of the list builds on what I just said...which gets us to the last one.....
Being Transformed Into New Creation It is my belief that this action is not mere evolution of human wisdom. It is through a daily communion with Jesus Christ and through a daily love of others. Please forgive me if I still snap at you and give you snarly comments....and I will try my best to be polite without compromising my own integrity to myself and to God. Edited by Phat, : re examination of what I said Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I had to look the word up. I try and learn things from you guys when I can. Internet Encyclopedia Of Philosophy-Sophists
quote:Is this the term you meant? Was I being lazy again in quoting an article that I didn't fully understand and that was not my own words?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Rahvin writes: Is it entirely possible for God..if God exists, to Himself be bigoted?
It's entirely possible for the "Word of God" or your interpretation thereof to be completely bigoted. Rahvin writes: Allow me to get personal. What if I told you that you were in sin if you didn't love God more than you loved your significant other? Would I be a bigot by telling you this and if so, why?
Here's the thing, Phat - if you see anything remotely wrong with being homosexual as opposed to heterosexual, you're a bigot. Pure and simple. Same as if you considered there to be anything remotely wrong with being black as opposed to being white. You'd be a bigot then, too. If you think your responsibility as a "role model" is to discourage homosexual relationships, you're a bigot. If you think your responsibility as a "role mode" is to discourage interracial relationships, you're a bigot. If you think that the "Word of God" compels you to do any of the above...you're still a bigot. None of your hand-waving or navel gazing or rationalizing has made even a little bit of difference. Rahvin writes: Not at all. What I believe is that the God I worship is the Creator of all seen and unseen and is superior to all human wisdom,faith, and belief. People are all created equal, though some are born handicapped, poor, or blind...they have equal heart and equal worth. We are all equally sinful as well. The question, I suppose is whether we need God, as I understand Him. I think we do. What makes you a bigot is very simple: you believe that some superficial classes of people are superior to others. Edited by Phat, :
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Dronester writes: After 120 posts, Phat has demonstrated he has the mindset EXACTLY equivalent to a three-year-old child who believes in the Easter Bunny, or a religious terrorists who would kill innocent women and children. There is no argument from logic that will penetrate his concrete brain. And there is no plea from morality and ethics that would sway his heart. IMO, Phat's fragile life would be irreparably crushed if he would even momentarily consider the forum's posts. He has willfully chosen to go to his grave believing he has a PERSONAL relationship with a mythical, invisible being riding around in the clouds. He is not alone. Half(?) the people in america have similar beliefs. Is it any wonder america has so much violence and retardation. As I mentioned previously, there are COUNTLESS ridiculous pronouncements from god in Deuteronomy and Leviticus he could latch on to. Yet Phat specifically chose the gay-card, PUBLIC intervention in regards to another person's genitals! That would suggest to any psychology-101-student that Phat has inner demons he cannot himself exorcise. At this point, I would also wonder if Phat's upbringing was also toxic. Phat, get thee to a first-rate therapist, you got a long difficult road in front of you. I say this in the same spirit in which you addressed me:
quote:
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I changed it. I can always edit my posts...they are collectively a work in progress.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Straggler writes: My intuition.
Where are you getting this stuff from if not your own prejudices?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
NoNukes writes: For the record, I find what many hetero couples do to also be icky. I believe the real motivation for bigotry, is that Phat and his ilk find what gays do to be 'icky' (with the possible exception of deeds done by really hot lipsticks) and thus are willing to focus on Bible interpretations prohibiting the practice while ignoring clear prohibitions on the stuff they themselves do. I'll admit to finding gay sex 'icky' myself. I also find runny eggs to be icky, so I don't eat them, rather than taking the step of campaigning to make eating such eggs unconstitutional. I also do not associate myself with an "ilk". My opinions are strictly my own, though I may be accused of being an Ilkodocean. Finally, for the record..I oppose legislation to discriminate in any form. I never advocated campaigning against same sex marriage any more than I advocate campaigning against public free speech even if it borders on "hatred" or intolerance to some. What I have said and will continue to say is that the Spirit of God is alive and through communion with Him, less "icky-ness" will manifest through the fleshly nature of humanity.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
dwise1 writes: Not at all. The fact is that you people are simply wrong. God exists and you have an inner nature that hates that fact. I myself am no better than you in my fleshly nature...but I will suggest that in Spirit, you are deluded and wrong. Keep trying to do your best though and don't hate. He loves you as much as He does me.
Phat and several other people do believe in the claims about the authorship of the Bible and so they seek support in it, but many others do not believe those authorship claims and so appeals to the Bible for support are meaningless.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And keep your invisible friends to yourself. Introducing my invisible friend:
Luke 6:22-26 writes: Blessed are you when men hate you,when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. "Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets. "But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets. John 15:18-19 writes: These days people don't even hate Jesus. They simply deny that He exists.
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. Father God exists and you hate that fact and you hate Father God. Why do you hate Zeus so much? Zeus loves you. Don't hate Zeus. First you speak truth...Father God exists...and then you let yourself believe lies. God is not a product of your imagination. I urge you to stop deluding yourself. Even if you close your eyes, reality wont go away. Stop fighting it.
1 Cor 1:20-21 writes: Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Doc writes: Not at all! I have no problem with my opinions and beliefs being criticized. And I honestly don't see myself as any more smug than anyone else. Perhaps I am...if so I apologize.(good scrip reference, by the way)
Smug and self-satisfied are you when men criticize your opinionsbecause you behave like a bigot and pretend that you're doing it because of the Son of Man.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Good post, Dwise1...I hafta go to work now(457pm Denver time) but will come back and edit this post and form some sort of coherent reply...I am most definitely an A person...so let me meditate and think of a logical response to you rather than a snippy emotional one. I respect the time that you took in making your reply and so believe it my duty to try and respond. Stay tuned...
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Christianity started out being Christ centred and now in many instances, particularly on this continent it has become so Bible centric that Jesus is virtually left out. Christianity should always be Christ centered. Jesus is alive today. This is the message that is important. My basic critique of the argument centers on those who look at Jesus as either fictitious or as a mere human historical character. I maintain that human wisdom-centered arguments will fail to explain the meaning of scripture almost every time. In which case the crux of defending ones position rests entirely on human logic, reason, and reality. Of course I suppose that Theodoric and others have a point when they challenge me to do so....after all, if I believe that Jesus is alive, perhaps He can help me defend my position!
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Not all Bible believers think God wrote the Bible. I believe that the Bible is inspired by the Spirit of God. Humans obviously wrote it...it didn't fall out of the sky and land at the feet of King James. As you have pointed out, there is not one book known as the Bible initially...it came about through compilation of letters, scrolls, and human writings which I believe were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Quite obviously these writings also reflected the culture and world view of the individual author(s).
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