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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Continuation of Flood Discussion | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I also think that the tectonic activity after the Flood is probably the cause of their emptying but I'd have to spend some time on each one specifically for that. And your source of knowledge that there was tectonic activity associated with the alleged flood is what exactly? Is that tectonic activity and different than the tectonic activity we see today?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I stopped reading some of the posts that don't treat me with "simple consideration and politeness" some time ago. Just once it would be nice if someone acknowledged that I said something that makes sense. As long as that isn't happening I reserve the right to read whatever I want to read.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If Faith's erosive flood caused the spires and buttes in Monument Valley wouldn't they all have a characteristic teardrop shape, as seen from above? And I would expect that the shape would be relative to the direction of water flow. That's a very interesting thought. I will ponder it. What DO they look like from above? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Yes, Old Earth dating does NOT compute. Once the Flood is recognized it will have to be rethought. So, no rebuttal to the age of the channeled scablands vs. the age of the purported flood? Typical. What you can't rationalize or obfuscate, you ignore. But facts are stubborn little things. They don't go away because we wish them to, or because we ignore them. In science, one good fact is enough to cause the rethinking of an otherwise elegant theory. How many facts does it take to cause the rethinking of a belief? Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I will. Just once it would be nice if someone acknowledged that I said something that makes sense."I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Again, I think the best evidence that water was the agent of the erosion is the flat plain around the monuments. I know you think that over hundreds of millions of years somehow or other that flat plain would have formed just by the processes of normal wind and weathering erosion. Seems to me what that would have left is a very chunky landscape, not a plain. But of course I'm just an idiot who has been told many times I don't understand physics. Good thing I know better, but convincing anyone with a vested interest in the Old Earth is of course not happening. Well, it turns out that what you think is completely wrong and not evidence for anything. There is NO FLAT PLAIN AROUND THE MONUMENTS!. I visited and photographed Monument Valley last Spring and saw with my own eyes that it is not a flat plain anywhere. You just keep making this stuff up. There is no evidence what so ever that the monuments were carved out of surrounding rock by a massive flow of water. The monuments are not oriented in the same direction as you would expect if there had been a massive flow of water. The physics of the behavior of water and how it erodes rocks and landforms in massive floods is well understood. The evidence at Monument Valley clearly shows that a massive eroding flood never happend there. Your descriptions of what you think is evidence that results from a flood clearly shows that you don't understand physics. Physics shows that the layering of the sediments exposed in the Grand canyon and Monument Valley could never have been deposited in a single flood. Physics shows that the erosion of the Grand Canyon and Monument Valley could never have been caused by a flood.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
What DO they look like from above? They are randomly shaped with no directional orientation.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Is it possible to find a picture?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The page about Monument Valley DESCRIBES the area as a plain.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is NO FLAT PLAIN AROUND THE MONUMENTS!. I visited and photographed Monument Valley last Spring and saw with my own eyes that it is not a flat plain anywhere. '' Your eyes seem to be at odds with people who spend a lot of time there. Here's a page that says it's a plain, not the one I remember, a different page, but it says the same thing.MonumentValley.org » Geology Great sandstone layers once covered this region, but erosion has left the valley a wide flat plain, interrupted by formations that rise high into the air. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
The page about Monument Valley DESCRIBES the area as a plain. That may be, but it is not a flat or level plain. What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It doesn't have to be tabletop flat for pete's sake, why does everybody get nitpicky as if I'm talking about an unnatural perfection anyway. But it is a plain, and probably more or less the surface of a rock layer.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Faith writes: Yes, I do see the planet as in a final and complete form.* I used to believe in the billions of years but got over it. Now I see the effects of the Flood everywhere I look. ABE: *Although I wouldn't call it "final and complete," as it was perfect at the Creation and has been deteriorating since the Fall, and was very dramatically roughed up by the Flood. This planet is nothing like the original Creation, it's a sad wreck of what was originally created. These are religious, not scientific, views. There is no evidence for a worldwide flood 4300 years ago, no scientific definition of perfect, no evidence of non-natural processes leading the planet toward deterioration (whatever that means), and no evidence of a Creation resembling that described in Genesis. Until you find evidence supporting your views you can't hope to convince anyone. Imagine someone fully sympathetic to and supportive of your beliefs, and all they want is to be able to bring the message to others. They ask you for evidence so that can say more than, "Faith at EvC Forum says so." What evidence do you have that, interpreted by the actual laws of the universe (instead of ones you make up), leads to your conclusions? --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Here's a page that says it's a plain, not the one I remember, a different page, but it says the same thing. MonumentValley.org » Geology Great sandstone layers once covered this region, but erosion has left the valley a wide flat plain, interrupted by formations that rise high into the air. When you look at the whole region the topography may seem flat because of the scale it is viewed from. When you are on the ground driving or hiking it is rugged and anything but flat. It is crisscrossed by intersecting washes around still eroding hills. It only appears relatively flat when viewed from far enough away that you can't see the washes and arroyos and low hills (remnants of eroded towers).What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Faith writes: It's the sort of thing that would have formed after the Flood, not during. And it wasn't "then" buried, it was already buried in the strata laid down by the Flood, so however this drainage system developed, it developed within the stack of strata after the Flood. You're just repeating your bald declaration using different words. No one here can imagine how a river drainage system could form beneath a flood. It's seemingly impossible, and it isn't something we see occurring anywhere in the world today. You're going to have to describe how this could happen for us. --Percy
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