The Search for Moderate Islam

Modulous and I have already had a pretty lengthy exchange on this subject. The bottom line is that demonstrating the existence of moderate Muslims does not demonstrate the existence of moderate Islam.

Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’
Bill Maher: Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’

Bill Maher didn’t hold back Wednesday night, blasting hundreds of millions of the world’s Muslims for allegedly supporting the Islamic terrorist massacre of cartoonists, writers, and editors at a Parisian satirical magazine that has mocked the Prophet Muhammad.

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I know most Muslim people would not have carried out an attack like this, the host of HBO’s Real Time With Bill Maher said on ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel Live. But here’s the important point: Hundreds of millions of them support an attack like this. They applaud an attack like this. What they say is, ‘We don’t approve of violence, but you know what? When you make fun of the Prophet, all bets are off.

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Hundreds of millions of Muslims? a clearly skeptical Kimmel asked his fellow comedian, an out and proud atheist who in recent years has targeted the adherents of Islam for harsh criticism.

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Absolutely, Maher insisted. That is mainstream in the Muslim world. When you make fun of the Prophet, all bets are off. You get what’s coming to you. It’s also mainstream that if you leave the religion, you get what’s coming to youwhich is death. Not in every Muslim country but this is the problem in the world that we have to stand up to.

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And have you ever actually spoken to a Muslim, in order to find out what "jihad" actually means ? As opposed to simply swallowing whole, the take of Fox News etc on the term ?Try looking here first of all: Islamic Supreme Council of America — Islamic Supreme Council of AmericaThis is a balanced piece, by the Islamic Supreme Council of America. It acknowledges that the term includes rare instances of properly sanctioned and defensive military action, to defend the faith, where no peaceful means are available. But it includes as well, working hard to be a good Muslim, internally and externally, and seeking peacefully to persuade.As the piece acknowledges, certain groups have misappropriated the term, but it is clear (not just from this piece, but if you actually engage with Muslims, and listen to them (instead of ill-informed media channels)), that Islam is not the "murderous cult" you denigrate it as.What IS and other terrorist groups are doing, in the name is Islam, is vile, and I support every effort to stamp them out. But if we blindly and with prejudice buy into the moronic media reports, blame all Muslims, and fail to engage with the mainstream of Muslim society to seek jointly to stamp out the terrorism, then we will fail and fail badly - and all as a result of our own prejudice.

You missed gun loving homophobic bigotry.What a fine advert for Christianity.

If you are defining Islam as something which moderate Muslims don't practice (which is pretty high-handed of you, to say the least), then by definition, any attacks you make on what you see as Islam, must exclude the faith of those moderate Muslims, who I understand to make up the vast majority of the world's Muslim population.You can't have it both ways. You can't define Islam in such a way as to exclude from it the beliefs of moderate Muslims, and then say that the faith of the majority of the Muslim world is not moderate.

As I said, I've been over this with Modulous already. I'm not really interested in having the same conversation. If you want to read through our discussion and ask questions about my position or just talk about some new stuff, that's cool.But as far as me having the same conversation with you that I had with Modulous? Nah.

Oh right, thank you so much for the reminder. And to that we must add hater of the theory of evolution. Have we done it now for the PC crowd?

And not recognizing the many different sects, not just the main branches, that fall under the Islam umbrella is like lumping all the many different sects, not just the main branches, that fall under the Christian umbrella.And defining the Islam umbrella by the behavior of certain cults within the umbrella is like defining the Christian umbrella by the behavior of certain cults within the umbrella, from Phelps to Jones to Koresh to Aryan Nation to the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. That is because of the fear factor -- Christians don't fear christians (even if they say they don't like the cults), but they fear the Muslim cults, and that leads to their distrust of all Muslims ... especially ones they don't know (ie virtually all).See http://www.psychologytoday.com/...big-fear-brain-study-finds for some interesting insight:

quote:

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Peering inside the brain with MRI scans, researchers at University College London found that self-described conservative students had a larger amygdala than liberals. The amygdala is an almond-shaped structure deep in the brain that is active during states of fear and anxiety. Liberals had more gray matter at least in the anterior cingulate cortex, a region of the brain that helps people cope with complexity.

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There's more in the article, but basically it says that the first reaction of conservatives is fear (is this why we see so much fear mongering on the reactionary talk shows?) while that of liberals is curiosity.Enjoy.

Ha ha ha ha ha. You guys are such saps. Islam actually teaches that it's good to lie to further the Kalifa or taking over the world for Allah. About a year before 9/11 I happened to read a book (Ramon Bennett, Philistine) that quotes Islamic leaders on their plans to take over the world, I've probably even quoted from it here at one time or another. Erase Israel from the planet (they've already erased it from their maps), settle Muslims in nonMuslim countries until they have enough of a population to force changes in their favor, by violence if necessary, force conversion or death, lie to make it sound like you accept their standards until you have the power to make them submit.The denial of the mass murders around the world in the name of Allah, and of the mayhem they are bringing about in Europe, the destruction of Marseille for instance, the high crime rate in Norway that finally prompted that nation to deport Muslims, says only too much about the leftist mentality.It's possible there are truly moderate Muslims, but as I keep saying they can only be moderate by denying the teaching of the religion they espouse, or reinterpreting it. Islam itself is a murderous satanic plan to subjugate the world.. Edited by Faith, : break into paragraphsEdited by Faith, : No reason given.

Sigh. If fear is a factor in the differences between conservatives and liberals, it's due to the recognition of reality by conservatives and its denial by liberals.

There you go again Faith, making the utterly silly mistakes just as you do with Christianity; you pay attention to what some author said Islam asserts just like you listen to the lying apologetics called Pastor or Brother or Bishop in the Christian Cult of Ignorance instead of actually check to see if they really are lying to you.We can tell that you do not read the Bible or believe what the Bible actually says so I have to ask, have you ever read the Qur'an or like the Bible do you just get your "facts" from the CCoI Snake Oil Salesmen?

There is a worrying thing about Muslims generally - although, with very few exceptions, Muslims in the Western world condemn these murders most would also agree that making fun of their Prophet is a heinous crime and some are even saying that the cartoonists had it coming - even whilst condemning it. Blasphemy hasn't been a law in the UK for some years but Muslims appear to have some very different values. It's still very primitive.

ROFLOL ... conservatives recognize reality? good one, Faith.During the elections the GOP hyped up fear about all kinds of things ... an ebola plague spreading uncontrolled in the US, ISIS crossing the mexican border ... on top of their old fear mongering over obamacare and death panels ...NONE of it was based on reality ... and the proof of this is that these fear memes have disappeared since the election, not because they were taken care of but because they were false.Global Climate Change is reality. The age of the earth being over 4 billion years is reality. That trickle-down voodoodoo economics is invalidated is reality ...Anti-science and anti-education is not reality based thinking.Being afraid of shadows is not reality thinking. Like Global Climate Change? If you want something to be afraid of ... pick something that affects all life on earth.Enjoy

The author quoted Islamic leaders and the official books of Islam. You can check it out for yourself.

I wouldn't be so sure that the reasons for the fears you mentioned have disappeared. Public outcry has an effect, but wait and see.