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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: White Privilege | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Cyanide comic ... Cyanide & Happiness (Explosm.net)
White privilege is subtle and pervasive ... Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
They did an experiment, and put out a huge number of identical resumes for job applications. The only diffidence between set one and set two was the one set had a typical European sounding name , the other had one that was distinctly black. ... Or hispanic: one resume for Joe, and an identical one for Jose, only Joe gets called for interviews. Sometimes I wonder what the results would be if everyone that met the selection criteria were then put in a random lottery to choose the lucky worker would not end up with equally capable workers and a more diverse workforce, no affirmative action needed. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... , but when I did meet blacks I was made to feel guilty for sins I never committed against them. ... You were made to feel uncomfortable for acts you unknowingly benefited from that were committed by others.
... Not so with Asians ... What about Native Americans?
... or Jews ... Israel was set up due to guilt over letting the holocast happen without protests from the various governments that refused to take in refugees in the early days, the US included. Our world and our society has been built on the sins of our forebears, and some have benefited and some have not. As we increasingly reach towards becoming a more just society, a "more perfect union," some of the unjust actions of the past need acknowledgement and in some cases some form of compensation. Canada has done much in the way of establishing semi-autonomous indigent nations within their boundaries, the US not so much (recent violation of native lands for pipeline construction for example). Hence the recent appeals to the UN. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Phat,
... I don't know whether you intended this topic to be a serious discussion of the social definition and application of white privilege or whether the irony of the cartoon was the focus. What the cartoon shows to me is that the white character is completely unaware -- as most white folk are -- of how much white privilege is ensconced in society to the point that it seems "natural" that the white side of the board starts first (why not a coin toss to see who kicks off and who receives?) The black character lives with that aspect every day. The difference in perspective is due to their different experiences.
... Quite naturally I saw it as an attack on me...sort of a reverse discrimination type of thing, and still feel that way, admittedly, from time to time. ... Do you feel entitled to maintain the status quo even though it is not just? Enjoy Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Even granting that white privilege exists as described by some here, the problem I think Phat is trying to bring to the table is that middle class and working class whites hardly feel privileged, ... That's because you are trained to think that privilege only applies to the upper class and uber rich and that you should aspire to become one.
... and when we hear that we are we resent those who seem to us to be trying to bump us off the social map with their claims of being underprivileged ... But you are privileged. Even just walking through a store without being followed by an employee to see if you are shoplifting is privilege - you are not automatically assumed to be a priori guilty.
... and deserving special treatment. Equal treatment is not special treatment" but it is just treatment. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Sure. That way I could miss out on hiring both the top Howard Law School grad and the top Duke Law School grad that I interviewed. Will that necessarily translate into being able to do the job better than someone else? My Duke degree certainly provided me with some "privilege" in being considered for jobs ... even though I rarely used what I learned for grades in those jobs. [abe]And what about the applicants that are just as smart and creative but didn't have the opportunity to go to Howard or Duke?[/abe] Personally I think that once the basic requirements have been met for a position, that other aspects of behavior and social skills become more important. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : abeby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
randomness is akin to socialism. I believe that people should be chosen strictly based on ability. ... Ummm is something wrong with socialism? That's why we have roads you know. And when you get 200 applications of which say 50 people meet or exceed the basic requirements ... what criteria do you use to pick *one* candidate?
... Why not leave names and other data that identifies a cultural racial profile and judge workers entirely on merit? A lottery system for those that meet the basic criteria would not use cultural\racial clues or even the results of long term cultural\racial discrimination. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Whats the alternative? I don't feel that my generation should be punished due to the sins of our forefathers, if that's what you mean. If you want to maintain the status quo because you benefit from it, and feel entitled to because it was your forefathers that created it not you, then you are perpetuating the system of privileges and biases and discrimination. Why should people continue to be punished when their forefathers did not create the system but were oppressed by it? The alternative is to work for increase wage justice and workers rights for ALL people, to form a unified front to insist on a minimum living wage, to insist on mandatory overtime for all workers, to insist on full benefits for all workers, to insist on better education opportunities, etc. The alternative is to work together. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : ]by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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When you share a privilege it isn't taken from you, nor is the other party given something they are not entitled to have as a basic right.
Gay marriage does not take away hetero's right to marryFreedom to walk through store without being followed and freedom to walk down your street without being confronted by police are not taken away from whites when they are shared with blacks. Equal pay for work of equal value does not take pay away from men to pay women an equal amount. We did this with women's votes, and we did this with civil rights. But there is still work to do for equal "privilege" to do with your life as you like. The only thing that ends when you share a privilege is the existence of that privilege, as there are no universal privileges, just rights. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : ...by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think it's wrong to equate being able to go about our business without oppression as a privilege and that it is somehow negative. Surely this is a state of civilisation that we all aspire to? It isn't a negative, the negative is people that do not enjoy the same treatment. It's not only what we aspire to, but what we aspire to apply to all people. I would say that how we judge a society is not by how well the best of us are doing, but on how well the least of us are doing.
The fact that there is a section of society that feels they have not achieved this state is a matter for concern and action by those that have, but it's not something that those that have achieved it should be criticised for. It's more like they are not allowed to achieve the same state. As Rrhain points out there are many barriers to achievements put in the way of people of color, natives, latinos, etc. We should be working to remove barriers, not build them nor passively leave them in place when they have been built by others. Accepting the status quo when you benefit from it is just as bad as setting it up in terms of how people marginalized by the status quo are treated. Aiding and abetting. Letting things slide because you are comfortable will not resolve the income inequality issue nor the global climate change issue. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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You and others here use the term 'white priviledge' to negatively label an entire class of people indiscriminately based entirely and only on the colour of their skin - that is racist and it is also untrue. Correct: what you said was untrue ... it is not to label and it is not to portray people negatively. What it is doing is pointing out that when some people are unprivileged, that results in some people being privileged, whether they seek to be privileged or not. When we say some people are unprivileged and point out who then is privileged, it is to resolve the issue of some people being unprivileged, which will also mean resolving the issue of some people being privileged whether they are actively involved in maintaining their privilege or not. Perhaps this will help (from Chuck Dunning on Facebook):
Great swathes of white American society are disadvantaged ... But not as much as blacks in general.
... and many blacks enjoy what you call white privileges and I call human rights. Not really. That won't happen until white privilege ceases to exist.
For the final time, I am not saying that there are not sectors of society that have not yet achieved these rights but that it's divisive and a continuance of the racial difference problem to use antiquated blanket terms when talking about what is a actualy a problem of discrimination and disadvantage across society as a whole. And the question is who benefits from discrimination and disadvantage across society as a whole? Doesn't the solution to the problem mean bringing the disadvantaged and the advantaged together into a common group? Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : ..by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... It's why the "#AllLivesMatter" backlash is the problem: It isn't that white people don't have problems. It's that black lives have different problems that need to be addressed directly in order to have them fixed and to sidetrack and distract from that focus will ensure that they never get fixed. ... My take on this is an analogy to a swimming pool full of people, one person is drowning and someone tells the lifeguard #drowninglivesmatter ... someone replies that #allswimmerlivesmatter, and while both are true, only one needs help. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hillary Supporters Hiss At Black Lives Matter Protester Who Interrupts $500-Per-Person Fundraiser [VIDEO]
quote: Ashley and the cameraman each paid $500 to attend the talk, so they were there legitimately, and should have been afforded the same privilege to ask a question. After she and the cameraman were escorted out, Hillary turned to the all white audience and said "okay, back to the issues ..." white issues. White privilege issues. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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