Christianity and the End Times

The problem you guys have is that you misunderstand what "follow" and 'believe" mean. Sheep do, in fact, follow their shepherd and do what he wants them to do. Whether or not they believe his pedigree is not important.

In this case, I go with evidence. I do not see the stories as accurately nor actually representing GOD as to what He inferred to the humans of that time. I also see jars argument concerning the lack of evuidence of a bottleneck (hourglass shape) in the fossil record which would be the case if the flood were literal. That being said, I believe that as a parable the story stands on its own merits. It would make no sense for a God to need to do such a thing if in fact He foreknew the end result. And even if He did not, what would make Him think that the new people from Noah and family would behave any better than the old bunch did?(given a few generations) In conclusion, I dont see God as directly doing such things. The fact that it was written that way only means that the authors wrote it as they understood it...not necessarily how it was.God is beyond word for word literalism. God represents thought for thought introspection and personal growth within the humans who commune with Him. Understanding of God is still evolving as we learn more. Only fools think we have outgrown Him or the need for Him. We humans will never attain full potential without help. The question is whether God would tolerate people in His house who had a free and rebellious will that overrode His authority. You may describe Him as weak because of this, but the implications of Him controlling everyone are scarier.

It is important. The original sheep were the created angels, according to dogma. One of them decided he wanted to have his run of the place with no acknowledgment of the host. He ceased following at that point and became a rogue leader. A house divided against itself will not stand. Thus, the cherub got booted. My argument concerning you opening your house to any and all carries the same potential problem. Some of whom you invite in will not listen to your house rules. Every house needs rules. Even if you were powerful enough to make all of them listen, your character would be such that you allow your guests autonomy. With autonomy comes the risk of rogues like satan rearing their rebellious little heads and running amuck.

Why cherry-pick one case to accept the evidence and reject all of the others? Why not go with the fact that there is no evidence of Jesus' resurrection? Clearly not. Why do you keep bringing up that falsehood? Why is it foolish to cling to a need for Santa Claus and also foolish to outgrow a need for God? Empty platitude. The question is how COULD anybody override his authority? Why? Unless he's a vicious sadistic bastard.

According to made-up bullshit. God's house, a house belonging to a real God can... not... be... divided. What part of that do you not understand?Edited by ringo, : Punc.tuation

But that is from Dante's Inferno NOT the Bible.

So how does the Bible differ? So it is clear that Satan was cast out of heaven and 1/3 of the angels went with him. (roughly...dont see a specific reference, but according to dogma)I suppose you will argue that Satan is portrayed in Job as an instrument of God. I'll go with that also...but it still portrays the tempter as a temperer. Just as iron is tempered into steel, humans are tempered into hopefully better characters.What better character to temper us than one who was a rebel in the first place. Sorta like an ex thief helping the police provide better security.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

You are the one suggesting He let everyone in. I'm merely pointing out that not everyone is a follower nor marches to the same drummer. By definition that entails potential division.If you invite drunk bikers to your little daughters birthday party, you cant expect everything to go smoothly. Because He gave them free will. If you gave everyone living at your house free will, they may well eat all of your food, sleep in your bed, and flaunt your ownership. Of course, you being a socialist may mean that you gave your house up to the common good anyway. For the life of me....Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Yes, because if He is God and not just Colonel Sanders, he shouldn't have any problems maintaining decorum. And God, by definition, entails not having to worry about a few potential tiffs between His guests. God can. What part of that do you not understand?

He can't without over riding their free will, which is what you never want Him to do to you. (assuming He exists) are you suggesting that He can magically make you get along with everyone while still preserving your right to autonomy? How would He accomplish this?

The idea of "free will" is pretty much nonsense. Are you suggesting that he can't? Most parents manage to mediate between warring children without setting some of them up in solid gold playhouses and barbecuing the rest. Why is your God less capable than that?

The Bible as usual differs as being more complex than simply taking one proof text out of context.Throughout the rest of the Bible Satan is described as the agent og God, doing only what God decides should be done.

From Wiki:

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Satan, also known as the Devil, is an entity in the Abrahamic religions that seduces humans into sin or falsehood. In Christianity and Islam, he is usually seen as a fallen angel, or a jinni, who used to possess great piety and beauty but rebelled against God, who nevertheless allows him temporary power over the fallen world and a host of demons. In Judaism, Satan is typically regarded as a metaphor for the yetzer hara, or "evil inclination", or as an agent subservient to God.

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To say that Satan is portrayed as an agent of God apparently originated in Judaism.

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In Christianity, Satan is also known as the Devil and, although the Book of Genesis does not mention him, he is often identified as the serpent in the Garden of Eden. In medieval times, Satan played a minimal role in Christian theology and was used as a comic relief figure in mystery plays. During the early modern period, Satan's significance greatly increased as beliefs such as demonic possession and witchcraft became more prevalent. During the Age of Enlightenment, belief in the existence of Satan became harshly criticized. Nonetheless, belief in Satan has persisted, particularly in the Americas. In the Quran, Shaitan, also known as Iblis, is an entity made of fire who was cast out of Heaven because he refused to bow before the newly-created Adam and incites humans and jinn to sin by infecting their minds with waswās ("evil suggestions"). Although Satan is generally viewed as evil, some groups have very different beliefs.

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Why do you dismiss the popular Christian belief, as you usually always do? We are not Jews.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Remember, Jesus was a Jew not a Christian. It was Jews that wrote the books of the Old Testament and Christianity itself originated as a Jewish sect.Christianity is and always has been a revisionist religion that has changed over time.Christianity, particularly the Biblical Inerrancy cult claim that all of the Bible was directed by God.If that is the case then it is reasonable to look at what the Bible actually says and the VAST majority of what is written in both the Old and New Testaments show Satan an an agent of God doing what God directs. Even in the story of the Temptation of Jesus the Satan character acts only as an assayer, a tester.When the apologists take a single passage out of context and ignore the vast amount of contradictory evidence contained in the stories the question should be "Why don't you dismiss them?"

why do you consider yourself more Christian than Jewish? Do you see any Jewish beliefs that you have internalized? How are they similar to your Christian beliefs? Is it all one religion to you?