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Author | Topic: Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Apologetics teaches that Jesus is God. It seems that you were taught that God is a product of human imagination and that GOD is forever unknowable until perhaps after death. No Phat, I was never taught that. Stop posting porkies. The only possible conclusion that might be evidence based is that all God(s) & god(s) that have ever been discussed have been products solely of the human imagination. How else can you explain the tens of thousands of gods humans have believed in or the fact that even in the Bible we see constantly evolving descriptions of god, each of which is mutually exclusive from all the other god characters in the stories. I was taught to think Phat and that is the difference. I was not taught to shut my mind down and simply accept utter nonsense.
Phat writes: Whats wrong with "marketing the concept" that Jesus is God? (Or more correctly GOD) and if you were somehow taught that Apologetic s was evil, where on earth can you even assume that GOD will help you when you wont even let Jesus do it? When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Phat writes: You evidently refuse the idea that Jesus is God. No Phat, I accept the evidence that even in the Bible there are different characters call Jesus and each presents the Jesus that that author created.
Phat writes: You evidently support the idea that humans universally make the Gods they create. No Phat. All the evidence supports the idea that humans universally make the Gods they create. But feel free to present the evidence or even reasoned argument that might refute the evidence.
Phat writes: Yet you wont accept that Jesus is this GOD. Which Jesus Phat? Which of the vastly different versions of Jesus found in the New Testament is the real Jesus? Evidence or reasoned argument Phat. Present evidence or at least some reasoned argument.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I can't fathom how anybody could think that makes sense. Personally, I always say that it makes more sense to me that Mind came before Matter. We know that the human mind interacts directly with matter - e.g. it can be influences by drugs. A vastly more complex mind that doesn't depend on matter, such as a god's, can not be anything more than wishful thinking on your part.
Phat writes:
I don't subscribe to any kind of philosophical mumbo-jumbo. I just deal with what we know objectively to exist. But your whole premise of "In The Beginning, Chemicals" is an ode to Physicalism otherwise known as Materialism."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of Course he is. He's one of God's Cabinet ministers. (See the Book of Job.) Even Satan is useful to God, however."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
On the contrary, that "battle" is tiny enough to fit in your mind, where it came from. Satan has a bag of tricks and the battle in the supernatural realm between good and evil is much bigger and more powerful than any rational scientifically minded person could ever guess."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Son Goku Inactive Member
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Well for certain the universe does not operate on code or anything remotely like it. That was ruled out by the Kochen-Specker and Bell theorems in the 50s and 60s and the experiments confirming them which proved the notion of the universe being in anyway like "code" was false.
Code suggests something like a computer program, i.e. has a state that is then updated into a new state by some rules. This was the Newtonian-Laplacian paradigm where the "state" went by various names and the "rules/algorithms" were known as the "laws of nature". Physics dropped this whole paradigm in the late 1920s and per the theorems above it was shown that it will never be the paradigm again. Edited by Son Goku, : Clarity of timeline
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So how do you explain that I have "seen" the supernatural? Not once but several times? Stage Hypnosis?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: So how do you explain that I have "seen" the supernatural? Not once but several times? Stage Hypnosis? That’s been explained to you many times but you're not interested because you've seen god. What I'd like you to at least consider are the experiences of other people that have seen god but have radically different experiences and even different gods. How can you explain that? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Just because other people see "other gods" does not explain anything except fake gods (actual demons posing as gods). Just as Moses was trumped by the magicians who duplicated his signs and wonders to Pharaoh. But of course I will never convince you...you think its all a matter of cultural upbringing and not actual power and evidence.
The only way you people here might be convinced is if you yourselves actually experience it. I suspect that even then you would search for any other explanation except that you actually experienced it."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Just because other people see "other gods" does not explain anything except fake gods (actual demons posing as gods). What are the tests anyone can perform to tell that what you experienced was not actually demons and a fake god!
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you read my posts at all? I have told you several times that I have had "experiences" too. The only difference is that I don't call them "supernatural". I call them "unexplained". So how do you explain that I have "seen" the supernatural? Not once but several times? Neither you nor I has enough understanding of the natural to decide that something "can not" be explained. It's far more likely that WE can't explain it but somebody else can.
Phat writes:
That's one possibility. Stage Hypnosis?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
One more time: I HAVE experienced "it".
The only way you people here might be convinced is if you yourselves actually experience it. Phat writes:
Well OF COURSE we're going to search for a sensible explanation before we swallow your nonsensical explanation. I suspect that even then you would search for any other explanation except that you actually experienced it."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I suspect that even then you would search for any other explanation except that you actually experienced it. Of course I would. If I was convinced that I had an actual supernatural experience then I would be sure something was terribly wrong with my head and that I need to seek professional help.Factio Republicana delenda est.
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined:
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interesting. i was using code as a metaphor for however God creates the superstructures that manifest our reality.
it seems an impossibility that matter and life can just sprout out of nothing, no mechanism, no instruction. of course, humans create. so we extend the metaphor to our deity. and maybe it is that simple. we create because we are made in image of the creator.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
do atheists think that we are in essence our own creator? How else would a physicalist explain creativity and discovery?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Just because other people see "other gods" does not explain anything except fake gods (actual demons posing as gods). So what is it about your experience that convinces you that yours is the correct experience? How can you tell? It's not just the gods of other religions that are convincing other people that they are right and you are wrong, the god of Christians is telling different stories to its different sects and, when it comes down to it, he's actually saying different things to each individual. Often very contradictory things. He's telling wtfishisnametoday that he's going to heaven but you are not, for example. You never take him up on that but if you believe the voices, one of you is right and one of you is wrong (or, of course, you're both wrong).
But of course I will never convince you...you think its all a matter of cultural upbringing and not actual power and evidence. I'm giving you the evidence that what you think is happening is not happening the way you think it is. But I do understand that delusions are rarely if ever cured by facts and evidence. When dowsers are tested and shown that they can't detect what they claim to be able to detect, it never convinces them, they always have an excuse. As you do - other people's voices are false gods or demons, but yours is real.
The only way you people here might be convinced is if you yourselves actually experience it. I suspect that even then you would search for any other explanation except that you actually experienced it. I, and others, have told you many, many times that we have experienced similar things. I guess you 'know' that we haven't, not like yours, because you're special. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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