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Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16592
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 241 of 327 (882289)
09-17-2020 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Fuckdamods
09-17-2020 2:17 AM


quote:
thankfully smarmy atheists that lift their noise to anyone expressing Christian belief are crowded here and in short supply in the real world.

Now see this is just insulting, and untrue.

quote:
atheism is a rich man's disease, a boyish, unnuanced, unthinking, ignorance of straightforward reality

And more insults instead of rational discussion. You are doing great work illustrating my points.

quote:
who coded this place, atheist guru?

Percy coded this forum. So far as I can tell there’s no good reason to suppose that anyone coded the universe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 2:17 AM Fuckdamods has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 2:38 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Fuckdamods 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 242 of 327 (882290)
09-17-2020 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by PaulK
09-17-2020 2:27 AM


make sure u reply to the last post on the previous page

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 2:27 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16592
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 243 of 327 (882291)
09-17-2020 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Fuckdamods
09-17-2020 2:25 AM


quote:
you don't understand the basis of your reality, yet you assume that it could not have had a creator?

Nobody understands it. And I follow parsimony in assuming the absence of a creator unless and until the evidence warrants it.

quote:
is that a rational position?

My actual position certainly is.

quote:
you've plainly admitted in front of the atheist cohort that even inorganic matter is infinitely complex and mystifying.

At the levels we usually deal with it isn’t. The complexities are found at the sub-atomic level.

quote:
yet you seem unable to draw the analogy that as human beings, endowed with the ability to create, that a cosmic force or god couldn't possibly have lifted a finger to create.

No, I am just unwilling to accept a weak analogy as sufficient argument. Because it is not.

quote:
there's no reason why a leaf is shaped as it is, in a triangular fashion, or oval shape, rather than being a collection of squiggly lines.

That is an assumption. Leaves are certainly shaped by evolution. Can you show that your “squiggly lines” would function equally well in the environments where the trees actually live? Can you show that your “squiggly lines” are a reasonable possibility given the developmental biology and evolutionary history of trees?

quote:
this world is clearly coded to a certain aesthetic. one that seems to be based around pain and suffering, but a discernible aesthetic no less.

That is your opinion, not fact. Though if it were fact it would certainly not depict the “coder” in a flattering light.

quote:
the more you correspond with me the more you will understand that you will intellectually never surpass the role of cruiserweight, and i'm the heavyweight champ of the world, the smartest gentleman to ever register an account on evc forum, a place far beneath my intellect and hubris

As you have demonstrated, you are just an arrogant little kid shouting insults from his paddle-boat. (Do you even know what “hubris” means?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 2:25 AM Fuckdamods has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 2:57 AM PaulK has responded

  
Fuckdamods 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 244 of 327 (882292)
09-17-2020 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by PaulK
09-17-2020 2:43 AM


do i know what hubris means?

do you know that i have an MA in english studies and that i worked with famous writers.

assumptions are your trade.

leaves that looked like squiggly lines could perform functionally just as well as what we have, if the code said it had to. don't you understand that? that everything is unique according to a certain molecular, biological, and genetic code?

you are interested in how the universe works, but you are overlooking the "why" of why does it work the way it does.

a car is designed to look and perform and operate a certain way. we're an infinitely more complex structure than a car, yet you don't seem concerned about who created our code.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 2:43 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 3:05 AM Fuckdamods has responded

  
Fuckdamods 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 245 of 327 (882293)
09-17-2020 3:00 AM


the reason why our society is doomed and why satan controls our world is because no one wants to ask the interesting questions. they want to calf lick. they want to collect. they want to create uninteresting arguments that miss the point entirely.

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16592
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 246 of 327 (882294)
09-17-2020 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Fuckdamods
09-17-2020 2:57 AM


quote:
do i know what hubris means?
do you know that i have an MA in english studies and that i worked with famous writers.

Then you know that hubris is not a good thing at all. And yet you boast of it.

quote:
assumptions are your trade.

Funny you say that when you use them so often.

quote:
leaves that looked like squiggly lines could perform functionally just as well as what we have, if the code said it had to.

Could they? Perhaps you’d like to back that up.

quote:
don't you understand that? that everything is unique according to a certain molecular, biological, and genetic code?

That is not the same thing at all. The genes don’t get to dictate that “squiggly line” leaves must work. They just get to build leaves and those that work better have an advantage that make them more likely to be passed on to future generations.

quote:
you are interested in how the universe works, but you are overlooking the "why" of why does it work the way it does.

It’s an assumption that there is a “why” beyond the “how”. Until that can be shown there is nothing to overlook.

quote:
a car is designed to look and perform and operate a certain way. we're an infinitely more complex structure than a car, yet you don't seem concerned about who created our code

The evidence is consistent with there being no “who” who created our code. So it’s an unnecessary assumption, and that is something nobody needs to be concerned with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 2:57 AM Fuckdamods has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 3:13 AM PaulK has responded

  
Fuckdamods 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 247 of 327 (882295)
09-17-2020 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by PaulK
09-17-2020 3:05 AM


so there is a code and unless the code is sentient and created itself there had to be a coder

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 3:05 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 3:16 AM Fuckdamods has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16592
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 248 of 327 (882296)
09-17-2020 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Fuckdamods
09-17-2020 3:13 AM


quote:
so there is a code and unless the code is sentient and created itself there had to be a coder

Again, that’s an assumption.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 3:13 AM Fuckdamods has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 3:21 AM PaulK has responded

  
Fuckdamods 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 249 of 327 (882297)
09-17-2020 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by PaulK
09-17-2020 3:16 AM


has a video game ever written itself into existence? maybe banjo & kazooie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 3:16 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 3:31 AM Fuckdamods has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16592
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 250 of 327 (882298)
09-17-2020 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Fuckdamods
09-17-2020 3:21 AM


quote:
has a video game ever written itself into existence? maybe banjo & kazooie?

Humans aren’t any of those, nor are trees. Why don’t you go away and actually come back with a rational argument that takes the evidence into account?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 3:21 AM Fuckdamods has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 251 of 327 (882299)
09-17-2020 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by jar
09-10-2020 10:37 AM


Re: Ringo Thinks The Early Church In Rome Was The Church In Acts
First of all, good morning. This is Thursday September 17th, my second day off in a row. Yesterday was a technological eye-opener, as I was scheduled to have a crown removed and redone on onof my upper teeth and I thought I knew what to expect...but as it turns out, the Dentist can now make the permanent crowns on the spot and cut the whole procedure in half time-wise as well as eliminating the need for dealing with a temporary crown for two weeks waiting for the crown to be made. Bad news for the Labs who used to make the crowns!

So after sleeping early, I awaken early at 5 am to continue my rambling, continuous debate and discussion with one of my favorite adversaries (jar of Texas) and his ongoing quest to get me to be honest with myself and think. As an aside to the peanut gallery (those bored enough to listen to us regurgitate the same issues again and again for over ten years) I have a desire to be honest with myself and others, as I essentially consider my discussions at EvC Forum to be training for encounters with like-minded skeptics, unbelievers, and critical thinkers whom I will someday meet in life.

jar writes:

You are still lying Phat. Show me where I market a God at all?

As I looked back and rethought the question, I realized that you indeed do *not* market a God at all. In fact, one of those Socratic Masters or Joe Wood convinced you early on that GOD is unknowable until after you die and to just simply throw the whole concept away---that apologists were con artists and misleading, and that if you simply *did* the message and answered that charge you would be a good member of Club: Christian. So in essence, the God that I see you marketing is no God at all.

jar writes:

Phat, I simply report what is actually written in the Bible.

Iano was right about you. You are essentially a fifth columnist who is assigned by an enemy whom you don't even believe in and would laugh at to undermine Christian belief. Even Satan is useful to God, however. So stay honest and do your job and God will show you your errors before this life is over we hope.

By the way, being the scientific critical thinker that you are, do you believe that you will meet God after you die? Do you see the One you meet as being Jesus Christ? Just curious.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by jar, posted 09-10-2020 10:37 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by jar, posted 09-17-2020 10:13 AM Phat has responded
 Message 258 by ringo, posted 09-17-2020 12:26 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 252 of 327 (882300)
09-17-2020 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Fuckdamods
09-17-2020 2:17 AM


A Couple Of Notes
Just a few quick notes, Chris. Good morning, by the way. Thursday my second day off this week.
I read with interest your exchange with PaulK. Though your argument is good, it starts with a conclusion. (That God exists) and PaulK is not one to ever easily accept such a conclusoion though if and when he does, he will be one of the strongest proponents for Christianity since he will first have accepted the evidence that convinces him. I like his style.
CSP addressing AZPaul3 writes:

the atheistic position is untenable. it's not that there could be a creator...there has to be. life cannot compose itself intelligently out of inert matter, just as inert matter can't compose itself...atheism is a fabrication
the greatest lie satan ever told was that you were not created

Satan has a bag of tricks and the battle in the supernatural realm between good and evil is much bigger and more powerful than any rational scientifically minded person could ever guess.(They never guess anyway! Quote Investigator

CSP writes:

there is a serious demonic spirit on this forum phat

as we know satan loves atheists,

they work for free

Sometimes I am compelled to think that I waste my time around here, but I have grown fond of my adversaries. If nothing else they help me form better arguments as an apologist. (A term that jar despises) I wont spend more than an hour here eveery day, however. Life is short and we are in a spiritual war. RCC knows this which is why they have exorcists. One of my favorite Protestant Excorcists is Isaiah Saldivar. Here is a recent podcast with Vladimir Savchuk .

Casting Out Demons


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Fuckdamods, posted 09-17-2020 2:17 AM Fuckdamods has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by PaulK, posted 09-17-2020 10:34 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 259 by ringo, posted 09-17-2020 12:29 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32970
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 253 of 327 (882301)
09-17-2020 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Phat
09-17-2020 9:14 AM


Re: Ringo Thinks The Early Church In Rome Was The Church In Acts
Phat writes:

Iano was right about you. You are essentially a fifth columnist who is assigned by an enemy whom you don't even believe in and would laugh at to undermine Christian belief. Even Satan is useful to God, however. So stay honest and do your job and God will show you your errors before this life is over we hope.

By the way, being the scientific critical thinker that you are, do you believe that you will meet God after you die? Do you see the One you meet as being Jesus Christ? Just curious.

I am a Christian and so most certainly do not undermine Christian beliefs Phat. What I do try to do though and it seems pretty successfully is expose the con artists that really undermine the Christian Faith. If I was not successful at that you would be able to present reasoned arguments that supported what the Apologists market.

That never seems to happen though.

And if there is life after death then perhaps I will meet GOD but I would be shocked if it is the picayune Jesus you and the Apologists market.

Phat writes:

So in essence, the God that I see you marketing is no God at all.

That's another silly post Phat. I have consistently said that I believe there is a GOD, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. What I do point out and provide the evidence to support what I point out is that all the God(s) & god(s) that humans have ever discussed are not GOD but rather creations of human minds that exist only in those human minds.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 9:14 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 11:33 AM jar has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16592
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 254 of 327 (882302)
09-17-2020 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
09-17-2020 9:55 AM


Re: A Couple Of Notes
quote:
Though your argument is good, it starts with a conclusion

It isn’t good at all - in fact it is woefully underdeveloped. At this stage it is just an excuse to jump to a conclusion. Which makes it a very bad argument.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 9:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 255 of 327 (882303)
09-17-2020 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by jar
09-17-2020 10:13 AM


Origins of jars Theology
jar writes:

And if there is life after death then perhaps I will meet GOD but I would be shocked if it is the picayune Jesus you and the Apologists market.

Interesting. Just from what you have written in the past, I can see where the change began at and through St.Johns. Apologetics teaches that Jesus is God. It seems that you were taught that God is a product of human imagination and that GOD is forever unknowable until perhaps after death.

jar, as he met Joe Wood writes:

I remember telling him that "Jesus died for my sins and so if I believed in Him I was saved." and his laugh before he said, "Well, then I guess all this is a waste of time isn't it?"


Confirmation Statement:
“Do you renew your commitment to Jesus Christ?”
“I do, and with God's grace I will follow him as my Savior and Lord. “
*One would thus think that after death we meet Jesus. But notice the wording of jar himself after Confirmation:
I remember on the drive home, all of us packed together in the car, mom and dad in the front seat and IIRC at the time, about 4 kids stuffed in the back, one of my parents asked me, “Well, how do you feel now?”
“I think I can do what I need to do.” I said, “I know that you and GOD will help.”
So when did Jesus get bumped out of the way and GOD took over? Whats wrong with "marketing the concept" that Jesus is God? (Or more correctly GOD) and if you were somehow taught that Apologetic s was evil, where on earth can you even assume that GOD will help you when you wont even let Jesus do it?

You evidently refuse the idea that Jesus is God.
You evidently support the idea that humans universally make the Gods they create.
You DO acknowledge that we will meet GOD when we die. (in your belief)

Yet you wont accept that Jesus is this GOD.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by jar, posted 09-17-2020 10:13 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by jar, posted 09-17-2020 11:49 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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