|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Conversations with God | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I have a friend who is, like you, very intelligent. He works at Ball Aerospace and designs various outer space stuff. (He helped design and build the Mars Global Surveyor) and one thing he likes to do with his spare time is argue with irrational people. Lately he has been having arguments with the flat-earthers. Yesterday we were talking about the arguments that his unlearned opponents make. You and he would likely see eye to eye.
I keep trying to convince him to become a believer in God and I will say that if he ever did consider it, it would be because of my credibility with him as much as any objective evidence which would be confirmed. I get mad at you when you become irrational and I guess what Im mad at is that you don't agree. I never get mad at him, though. Perhaps I need to treat you more like i treat him. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Stile writes: I see ringo as a man who once attended church (perhaps in what he saw as a cell of ignorance) and being dissatisfied with the whole idea of trusting God and other fellow believers, went outside the cell in search of more rational truth/data. I joke to him that now, rather than marrying the One Who comes for his Bride, ringo will stand at the altar forever if necessary awaiting evidence that the communion is even necessary. Scenario #1: Think of a man in a cell who has lived his entire life in this cell.There are no windows, but there is a door, and there's no lock. Food is delivered, and all the man's needs are met. Scientifically, how does the man leave the cell?-there could be wonderful things to learn outside the cell -there could be terrible danger awaiting outside the cell -but, there is no need to leave the cell. Without any data, the man can never, scientifically, learn or guess of "a need" for him to leave the cell.Therefore, scientifically, the man awaits "more data." Maybe this never comes. But, using a belief-based method - the man could leave the cell at any time, for almost any imagined reason, even - believing it's "for the better."Maybe he'll die. Maybe not. But - it is a much faster decision then waiting around for "more data." Perhaps some of you see me as a tragic figure trapped in the cell of organized religion. I see myself not as in a cell but as in the house of God. Life outside of that is quite scary, and I don't trust humans alone as capable of providing the final answer. To our credit, we do comfort each other and add to our collective knowledge base. And the fact that so few of you see the idea of One God as rational and anything other than human-centric shows me that I see you as trapped in a cell where evidence and rationality rule. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Stile writes: First of all, thanks for your courage to be honest and unafraid of discussing the possibility that God exists. Most Humanists here at EvC say that they are science fact based rather than leap of faith based yet they also want God to be more in line with how they see Him logically being rather than the common apologetic version...which jar repeatedly points out as reprehensible. You once started a topic titled I Know That God Does Not Exist where you defended your choice of rational choice based on facts or data rather than feelings and leaps of faith.
I see ringo as someone who follows the evidence for identifying reality.And if that evidence leads to God - then ringo will accept God as being real. And if that evidence does not lead to God - then ringo will not accept God as being real. This will always lead ringo to being able to identify reality correctly - he cannot possibly be wrong (in the end.) I see ringo as someone who follows the evidence for identifying reality. You and ringo are similar. I like your arguments better for they respect my choice, whereas many others attempt to forc me into throwing my preferred fantasies away and doubling down on logic, reaso and reality as many of you have done. Personally I feel that ringo--nor anyone else--will EVER find raw data based objective evidence leading to God.And if that evidence leads to God - then ringo will accept God as being real. Many of you see that as unimportant. I see it as crucial, for I believe that through Him ALL things were created and where we live and breathe and have our being. I will agree that caution and patience are warranted before taking any leaps of faith. Perhaps you feel that IF God existed He would understand.
Stile writes: First of all, thanks for your courage to be honest and unafraid of discussing the possibility that God exists. Most Humanists here at EvC say that they are science fact based rather than leap of faith based yet they also want God to be more in line with how they see Him logically being rather than the common apologetic version...which jar repeatedly points out as reprehensible. You once started a topic titled I Know That God Does Not Exist where you defended your choice of rational choice based on facts or data rather than feelings and leaps of faith. I see ringo as someone who follows the evidence for identifying reality.And if that evidence leads to God - then ringo will accept God as being real. And if that evidence does not lead to God - then ringo will not accept God as being real. This will always lead ringo to being able to identify reality correctly - he cannot possibly be wrong (in the end.) Even though I am a believer who would say that God created/imagined us long before we imagined/created Him, I can totally see your logic and honesty and do not disagree with you. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: You were dissatisfied with God, or as you may have seen it, "The God Concept." For whatever reasons, you were unable to relate to or have communion with God. To you, He became a manufactured myth rather than a living reality. I'm not sure how this happened...though you have said it before.
Y'see, people think you're making up your own God because you make up your own beliefs about me too - despite the fact that I have told you repeatedly that your beliefs about me are not true. I didn't leave the church because any dissatisfaction. Write that down so you don't forget it.ringo writes: Mine and everyone elses "made-up god" either exists or does not exist. You concluded that He did not. To me, that is what I mean by dissatisfaction. You elevated yourself and your own critical thinking process above the thinking/believing process of the rest of us. You became better satisfied with yourself and less satisfied that a God existed who cared about you and loved you. (and Who was quite capable of Communion with you) Neither do I - but we're all we got. I rejected creationism, for example, because I went looking for evidence to prove it - and there isn't any. The same applies to gods - in particular, YOUR made-up god. Now...before you go off on me, I will give you credit for taking the message to heart and doing more in your community to help the needy than many Christians do. I seriously doubt that "my god" as you so glibly put it would have a problem with you for simply and honestly ceasing to believe in Him.
I rejected creationism, for example, because I went looking for evidence to prove it - and there isn't any. Biblical Creationists are a bit different than believers in my experience. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: You rationalize by saying that you in effect "grew up" and that many of the rest of us cling to childish fantasy regarding our religious beliefs.
It was like standing on a street corner and realizing, "I have no reason to be here." Some people are able to delude themselves into thinking they are able.
We are able to choose. You simply swapped God (and in your mind unicorns and Leprechauns) for Critical Thinking and scientific standards. Which then begs the question of why some of our best scientists are also believers.
He was never a "living reality" to me or to anybody else. Lies. You cant crawl inside our head and tell us what we have experienced. You cant even assume the nature of why we experienced it. Stay in your own lane.
I chose the process that works best. You know that critical thinking works best - you don't drive down the street blindfolded, praying to God to protect you. You only elevate belief above critical thinking in areas where you can't be proven wrong. The idea that you could be proven wrong was your faux pas. You only proved that the belief that you chose to have regarding God was juvenile and simplistic. Indeed you chose the process that worked best for you at that time and nobody is trying to take that away from you. I am only suggesting that you chose prematurely. Its your choice, however. Dont pretend you only had one option."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And your assumption is contradicted by the existence of other religions, which all make the same assumptions about their own gods. Just as you once told me that I dont get to have my own private definition of "evidence"...you dont get to assert that everyone gets their own god. TThere is only One God. (or none, were you right) There is no umpteen gazillion. Just because you dont see it and concluded it a myth gives you no room to assume that your conclusion should be adopted by everyone. You claim facts but I see no way to provide them. And absence of evidence never suggests evidence of ab sense. And for the record...I insist that my beliefs are the right way because of my experiences. You insist that yours are right based only on tour deductive logic. WWhich is no default conclusion."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
Just as you once told me that I don't get to have my own private definition of "evidence"...you don't get to assert that everyone gets their own god.ringo writes: Thats only based on your assumption/conclusion that God is strictly a made-up character and that people choose the character which they adapt.
It's not an assertion. It's a conclusion based on the facts. Everyone DOES get their own god. That's why there are so many of them. Phat writes: There is only One God. Sez you. The Hindus disagree. The Romans disagreed. The Greeks disagreed. The Egyptians disagreed. Etc. Irrelevant. God chose me long before I even had the capability to choose Him. Tangle may have a dog in this hunt by asserting that religion and "gods" are entirely cultural, but I am unconvinced by this typical atheist/humanist argument for several reasons.(which you can ask me later)
ringo writes: Oh stop with the leprechauns. We all (by a large majority) agree that Leprechauns were a cultural myth, as is bigfoot as is Loch Ness. Likely we could throw Santa Claus in there without much disagreement. As for the seriousness of a chosen religion and acceptance of a Deity, we would have much more push-back in regards to Allah vs Yahweh/Elohim/God the Father and Jesus vs gods that people take seriously. Hindus have a dog in this hunt as may the ancient Romans, though I dont know why you are so afraid to proclaim the beliefs of another culture as WRONG. The Apostle Paul certainly was not.
I concluded it's a myth for the same reasons that you concluded leprechauns are a myth. ringo writes: What are you suggesting? That we all will,after all, arrive at the same conclusion? I hardly think so, though perhaps it would be notable.
Everyone can reach the same conclusion for themselves. I don't need to tell them what to conclude.ringo writes: As I explained earlier, we all may or may not agree on what are cultural myths and what are actual deities. You embarrass yourself by suggesting that Leprechauns are anywhere near on par with Jesus Christ or Allah Most Merciful. Then again, it appears to be your chosen argument.
And AGAIN, YOU have reached the same conclusion about leprechauns, for the same reasons. You have no basis for reaching a different conclusion about gods. ringo writes:
If you can't provide facts, you can't reasonably make a conclusion.Phat writes:
And absence of evidence never suggests evidence of absence.Take the word "never" out of there. When there is no evidence to support leprechauns, YOU conclude absence. I conclude that though many claims of evidence are questionable and that many should be rejected out right, I do NOT concluse that all claims of personal healings, more than coincidental manifestations, and signs and wonders experienced by large groups of people in the mainstream religions should all simply be rejected because ringo of Saskatchewan personally concluded it all a load of crap and then has the gall to suggest that he was right and everyone else was wrong., To wit: [qs]ringo writes:
As I have pointed out before, your interpretation of your experiences is wrong.Phat writes:
You insist that yours are right based only on your deductive logic.ringo writes:
My presuppositions were based on voices that I and others heard that sounded like chipmunks and which literally caused my hair on my arms and legs to stand on end. To this day,27 years later, the 4 of us present would tell the same basic story. There were countless times where a particular scripture that I would be studying was repeated back to me from laymen and Pastors alike that same day. I suppose I could call it coincidence though it happened too often for that. As I have also pointed out before, my experiences are the same as yours or similar. It's your interpretation that's wrong. You have no basis for your conclusions except for presuppositions based on your beliefs. Your "reasoning" is circular.I have had experiences that can not be explained. So guess what - I don't explain them. I don't know what caused them - and neither do you. In addition, Isaiah Saldivar,Alexander Pagami, Vlad Savchuck and other supernatural revivalists have yet to show me that they are in any way dishonest, lying, or making stuff up. For the record, I am aware that any Pastor can choose the dark side and I freely admit that any Christian can turn out to be evil, selfish, or a bad witness for their faith. I am not looking for perfect teachers or perfect humans. I am looking for an absolute truth vs a Relativistic truth. I am unimpressed with Spinozas god. In essence, I am trying to present an argument to you and the peanut gallery. I suspect, however, that you all will reach different conclusions that I do/did. You all are largely the same. You don't accept the God marketed....you equate Christianity with Right Wing Authoritarianism, You conflate Christian Believers with Biblical Creationists and you all preach the idea that god is simply a character in a book. So why do I even bother hanging around here? Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And so we discuss ad nauseum.
Phat writes:
So why do I even bother hanging around here?ringo writes: There is a lot that I learn, though it is difficult to change my preconceived bias. I did not simply fall for some carny barker in a tent somewhee. Because deep down you know there's something to what people ae telling you? Nonsense. Look at what you believe: Everything is made up in ...somebodies head... That is one of the flaws in your thinking which led you to atheism. You fell for too many doctrines of demons. But of course I'll never convince you. Even if I sold all that I had and went and split it with homeless people you would never change your beliefs. You might think that I finally respected Jesus, but you would still think of it all as characters in a book.
ringo writes: Its time we exposed this PRATT for what it is. people dont simply choose cultural objects and local icons to believe in. And if they do, they are more likely to choose idols and demons than they are to choose the real deal.
If you had been born in India, you'd claim that Vishnu chose you. If you had been born a thousand years ago, you'd claim that Odin chose you. ringo writes: Sin and idolatry are far more popular than obedience, sacrifice, and letting it all go. You may have a reason for accusing me of ignoring what Jesus said, but if so you can level that accusation at the church-at-large. Which you may have done. Which come to think of it is one main reason you abandoned belief because it made no sense to you. Yet you failed to realize the signs that we are in a war. And godless humanistic socialism is a rather attractive idol...it seems to work. I say look closer. God is missing.
Reality does not require majority assent. ringo writes: And yours. We are all wrong. None are righteous.
The Hindus', Romans', etc. beliefs are as wrong as yours. ringo writes: Prove it. Name 4 of them.
The Apostle Paul was certainly wrong about a lot of things.ringo writes: Moral relativism is a convenient copout. It has limited value. Absolute truth suffered due to the rise of Right ing Authoritarianism, which hijacked the purpose and goal.
You're assuming that there is a "correct" conclusion. If the question is, "What is the best flavour of ice cream?" you'll get a lot of different opinions. But the honest conclusion is that it's a matter of personal taste and there is no "right answer". ringo writes: I disagree. I am quite mainstream.
You embarrass yourself by never telling us what the difference is. Your only argument seems to be the fallacy of popularity. In which case, you lose anyway because your perverted vision of Jesus Christ is by no means the most popular version of God.ringo writes: Oh I get your argument. I simply disagree. My objective conclusion is that there is a Creator. You whine for evidence and refuse to consider the objectivity.
It's not a personal conclusion. It's an objective conclusion. Phat writes:
My presuppositions were based on voices that I and others heard...ringo writes: No, your presuppositions were based on belief in the Christian God and belief in other spooks including demons. I have heard scary things too. You are wrong in thinking you know the cause of those noises. Phat writes:
To this day,27 years later, the 4 of us present would tell the same basic story.ringo writes: The problem is, as a potential Bride of God, you stand at the altar forever waiting for evidence before even considering marriage. I took the plunge. And it ain't koolaid neither. I don't believe it. Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later. Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
In response to your thought provoking response, I've decided to start a new Book Nook topic where I can explain some of the ideas in a recent book that I have read which I by and large agree with and will attempt to articulate. The book, The Coming Civil War was written by Tom Kawczynski, who appears to be an evangelical conservative (were I to categorize him) but whose arguments resonated with my own rationale and argumentative process. I realize that I am strongly encouraged to use my own words in our discussions, but keep in mind that my beliefs are and shall likely always be absolute and not relativistic wishy washyness.
Here is the authors partial bio at Amazon (more on them in a minute! )
quote: Now about Amazon and Bezos The Clown:
Amazon Begins Censoring Books Last week, Amazon banned When Harry Became Sally. The book, which was written by Ryan T. Anderson, a researcher for the conservative Heritage Foundation, is a bestseller. Or, at least, it was a bestseller. Amazon purged the book because it explores some of the problems that transgender individuals face. It asks questions about gender identity, what it means to transition, and the recent increase in the number of individuals identifying as transgender. Anderson’s book is filled with detailed research and in no way advocates for violence or abuse of transgender people, yet Amazon pulled it from the shelves after three years of selling the book. If a single book store removed Anderson’s book, it wouldn’t be a huge issue. But when Amazon removes a book, the book can become impossible for some people to access. Amazon controls a monopolistic 83 percent of the book marketplace in the U.S. It also controls more than three-quarters of the ebook marketplace. If you live in America and read books on a kindle, there’s a good chance Anderson’s book is unreachable. Amazon, which has been credited with the demise of local bookstores, now has the power to censor books. Anderson warned that this censorship could have a chilling effect on future authors because they cannot afford to write about a controversial issue that could be determined problematic by Amazon because their book sales will tank. He also explained that Amazon provided no recourse for his publisher to get back on the platform. I saw this first in the local newspaper and was dumbstruck. Though I have called myself a political moderate (in the quest for a fair and balanced outlook on reality) I must say that I side with the conservatives on this one. This whole idea of relativism as a world view is wrong on so many levels. Granted I can see a few examples where it is right, but my jury is definitely still out! Listen to my boy Ben Shapiro as he lets reality be known:
You cant argue against his absolute truth logic. Moral relativism, while free to profess, is not a default standard."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
well so much for arguing that book!
But I do respect Ben Shapiro and his intelligence. And I also note that several of you here at EvC have a decidedly Left leaning bias. My point is that Conservatism does not automatically equate to evil. Shapiro makes that point real for me very eloquently in his video above."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Try again:
quote:Respond to that and keep your rants to yourself. My rants are part of my processing. One weeks rant may turn out to be the next weeks epiphany...or not. Ranting is part of the emotional process. Now for my response.
ringo writes: The fact is, our recollections of the event have not changed. I am in touch with two of the other three witnesses. Anyway I wont nitpick. Your problem is that you went out of your way to avoid confirmation bias and ended up confirming the opposite (according to your newly chosen bias). How did you conclude that God did not exist when you once believed He did exist? Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later. Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias. Oh lemme guess....you realized that you never heard any audible answers or encouragements from the Deity Himself, right? You probably read a few scholarly articles on the phenomenon of inner voices and of how it was generally depicted among psychotics. If not, do explain. How did God become unreal to you? How did the book become merely a product of humans and not a rhema word confirmed through the Holy Spirit? Matter of fact, how did you willfully and actively choose to deny that the Holy Spirit is real? You yourself claim that you once accepted such beliefs."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Well enlightn me then.
I found this: Censored My beef is with Bezos. Who in the hell does he think he is?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
nwr writes: Conservatives are relativists. They deny that, of course. But you only have to watch them to see their relativism at work. You get me to think. Or at least to investigate what others say...that's one way that I gain some sort of perspective on the consensus of popular culture and the ideology that is expressed. Now...one thing that EvC has taught me is that things are not always as they seem. So in my search for confirmation (or challenge for) your statement, I found Stephen Law.
Liberals Are Relativists quote:Of course I found several others which agreed more along the lines of my bias, but I compared 5 or 6 sources from the search engine and thought that Laws challenged my bias the most. I don't defend conservatism nor liberalism as much as I defend my belief that God exists, is alive through Jesus Christ, and is not simply some human derived character in a book. My faith is getting more broad based if not stronger. I seriously doubt that I would ever leave it as many did here at EvC. I still cant figure out why you people think the way you do and choose to believe what you do, but I keep plugging away. Edited by Phat, : added features "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Wiki writes: In May 2019, Neil interviewed Ben Shapiro, an American conservative commentator, on Politics Live on BBC Two.[69][70][71][72][73][74] Shapiro was promoting his new book, The Right Side of History, which discusses Judaeo-Christian values and asserts their decline in the United States.[70] Several combative instances during the interview gained viral attention, including Shapiro walking out.[71] Shapiro later apologized for the incident.[70] I'm searching for that interview now. Once I watch it, I may have further comment. Edited by Phat, : as I gather information..."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Earlier, I said Message 141
I still cant figure out why you people think the way you do and choose to believe what you do, but I keep plugging away. While looking at Professor laws blog, I found a response from one of his critics/colleagues (Larry Hamelin) that encapsulated and that may explain how many of you think.
quote: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024