Do we affect the" physical " indepentent of the laws of physics

The laws of physics do not recognize the force of me. My physical body though, must obey them so I must succumb to them in that context.
I affect the world around me on a daily basis in some very unique and unpredictable ways.
I am a force that does things at will and in many ways not according to any known physical laws. In fact it can be said that the force that is “us” generates it’s own set of changing laws called beliefs. The force that is us succumbs to these laws both by coercion of other similar forces and our choice. By obeying these laws we in turn can have a profound and unpredictable effect on the physical world. In effect, our changing Laws can become a force and in turn, affect the physical world in unpredictable ways according to the laws of physics. In addition to this we as individual forces can choose to act against the very laws we generate.
Perhaps thinking of us in terms of an energy force will allow science to have a better glimpse at that which is “us”.I find this perspective interesting and would like to see it explored. This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-23-2006 02:28 AMThis message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-23-2006 02:34 AMThis message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-23-2006 02:39 AM

Hello, 2ice_baked_taters! I think that this is a neat and relevant question, but I see no reason why you cannot include it in your other topic, here. Any other comments from other admins are welcomed.BTW if you disagree with me, get back to me here by March 7th and state your case.

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I agree that it is under the quite general blanket of what I started.
I Do not come to this sight to debate as many I see.
Debate for debates sake is simple argueing.
I have come here to have meaningful input and exchange.
Though debate may arise.
I can very clearly see the problem that arises when those of the religions of science and faith clash. I am trying like hell to avoid that foolishness. My main topic is too broad but I had a lot on my poor little mind. lol This is an aproach that I have never heard. The idea that we are a spirit and it dwells within the body had been around for ages but not described in the sense of physics. I had the hopes as this came to me that it might bridge some gap. The biggest obstacle that science has is that to the religion of science The world is flat until proven otherwise. We as spiritual beings know the world is not flat and you know what I mean.
I have been asked by some inteligent people here including administrators if I am "EVO" or"ID" That tells me something important about them especially when I have watched thier posting.
I see inteligent people treat EVO with the same fervor that crationists treat ID. That type of passion is not warranted to a theory. It smells the same to me It is either a theory or it isn't. It is no more foolish to defend the Bible than a theory.Both have thier very relavent purposes. I see them both clearly. Many do not. Science will teach us about the physical world and its laws but it will never do anything for the spirit. It will not comfort you when the bottom drops out. No theory will help the pain of a child or a parent dying. Rationality goes right out the window. I have seen it first hand.
Now I will tell you flat. I Do not believe in any way that the earth was created in 6 days and I was born Catholic. The general theoretical process of evolution makes sense but there are a lot of holes.
I also don't have a problem with having other forms of life evolve into what I am if it is the case.I feel that I am truly in the middle. Those who put thier faith in science can lose perspective just as those who burry thier head in religions can lose thiers.You mayhap expected a simple answer. You may find I often do not ablige These are the reasons why My topic should be kept separate so that it gets explored before it gets burried in the mess I created in my first forum. I will get better at this as I go.

I am now asking for some input from other admins concerning this PNT.I think that either yours or sidelineds may be promotable...they are very similar.

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I see this PNT, and the PNT from sidelined, as very different.I see this PNT as having to do with ESP, perhaps remote levitation. Such ideas have been scientifically researched and shown to be wrong.The PNT by sidelined has more to do with the mystery some see around consciousness, and the appeal to that mystery by ID proponents.I don't have any objection to promoting either of them. I suggest "What is Science" for this one, and "Miscellaneous ..." for the sidelined one. The sidelined PNT does look very similar to some other recent topics, and IMO his issues could as easily be discussed there.

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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Well, actually they do recognize your body as a force. Every piece of matter has an effect on space-time. The sun for example shows this very clearly. Light from other stars further away is distracted, as space-time is being bent by the sun. If you move this effect is increased. Now, of course you are a lot smaller than the sun, so your effect on space-time will be a lot smaller. But it is there. For example, if you and a friend of yours wear extremely exact watches and set them both to an identical time. Your friend will then stay where he is and not move, while you run once around your house, when you come back to him, your watch will be a tiny bit faster than his. Through your movement you have warped the space-time around you and have actually traveled into the future. This happens the whole time. Of course, one single person does not have much of an effect, but all the humans in the world, and, even more so, the things they build and do most certainly do have an effect on space-time.But there is more to it than just that. By looking at our world we change it. This has to do with quantum mechanics. Quants jump about the whole time from one place to another. Only if they are part of a reaction (i.e. someone looking at them), they stay in their place. Think of a box with a cat in it. Inside this box there is a mechanism that will kill the cat if a certain quantum state is reached. The moment you open the box and look inside decides wether the cat will live or die. Before you open the box the quant is in both places at the same time and in no place at all. So, practically this means that you change your surroundings only by looking at them. No one know what effect this might have. Your looking at a quant here and so forcing it to stay in one place may have an effect miles away somewhere in the universe.

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"I refuse to give proof",said god. "Because proof evades faith and without faith I am nothing." - "But the babelfish is a dead giveaway!",says the scientist. "Something so mindbogglinly practical could never have evolved by itself.It is a perfect proof that you exist ans so you don't" - "I hadn't thought of that.",says god and vanishes in a puff of logic.

sorry that just sounds less like science and more like science-fiction.. so how does the sun "distract" light from other stars?
can you give any evidence for these claims?The secound paragraph just goes to show that people can use QM to validate anything, plus it sounds like you are trying mix QM and chaos theory..
go email the resident QM guru randman sorry if it came off harsh but you can use it for anything

John,

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Your friend will then stay where he is and not move, while you run once around your house, when you come back to him, your watch will be a tiny bit faster than his.

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I think you meant slower than his.

ReverendDG

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sorry that just sounds less like science and more like science-fiction.. so how does the sun "distract" light from other stars?
can you give any evidence for these claims?

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The observation of the solar eclipse in 1919 by just about everyone remotely had anything to do with astronomy at the time.

hrm? sorry i didn't really understand this, but john made it sound like the sun somehow blocked the light, i guess maybe i'm tired

I think that rather than 'distract' 'distort' might have been a more suitable word. John was talking about the phenomenon of gravitational lensing whereby a massive object, in this case the sun, can change the path of light due to the deformation of space-time which its mass creates.TTFN,WK

Yes, that is what I meant and I actually also meant that the person who is running will have the slower watch. Sorry, I got things mixed up there a bit.I will have to read up on the quantum mechanics part of things again, though. I am not entirely sure watching one quant here can have an effect somewhere else, but it definately is the case that they only really definately take in one point in space if they are looked at. Before that they have a certain probabilty of being in several different points. At least that is what hawking states.

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"I refuse to give proof",said god. "Because proof evades faith and without faith I am nothing." - "But the babelfish is a dead giveaway!",says the scientist. "Something so mindbogglinly practical could never have evolved by itself.It is a perfect proof that you exist ans so you don't" - "I hadn't thought of that.",says god and vanishes in a puff of logic.

I have not heard one person come within a mouses butt hair of grasping nor saying one word remotely relating to exactly what I stated.I have not the foggiest notion where some one gets ESP out of my
topic.This topic was intended to be looked at from the standpoint of physics.
We talk about forces all the time. But we can never see one. Only evidence that they exists. What I see it that many people do not like when the obvious stares them in the face. It's just that physics cannot put this in a neat little box and say ...there...that's a rule we can follow.

Hi 2ice_baked_taters,You want to be careful to engage in rational analysis by avoiding semantic confusion. This can be avoided if you're careful to use terms in a precise manner so that rationality isn't lost. No, you are not a force. You are matter and energy. Matter and energy can exert forces on one another, but you are not yourself a force. You can use the matter and energy of your body to bring forces to bear on other matter and energy, or even on yourself, but you are not a force. Can you provide an example of something you do that is not according to known physical laws?--Percy