Do we affect the" physical " indepentent of the laws of physics

The laws of physics do not recognize the force of me. My physical body though, must obey them so I must succumb to them in that context.
I affect the world around me on a daily basis in some very unique and unpredictable ways.
I am a force that does things at will and in many ways not according to any known physical laws. In fact it can be said that the force that is “us” generates it’s own set of changing laws called beliefs. The force that is us succumbs to these laws both by coercion of other similar forces and our choice. By obeying these laws we in turn can have a profound and unpredictable effect on the physical world. In effect, our changing Laws can become a force and in turn, affect the physical world in unpredictable ways according to the laws of physics. In addition to this we as individual forces can choose to act against the very laws we generate.
Perhaps thinking of us in terms of an energy force will allow science to have a better glimpse at that which is “us”.I find this perspective interesting and would like to see it explored. This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-23-2006 02:28 AMThis message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-23-2006 02:34 AMThis message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-23-2006 02:39 AM

I agree that it is under the quite general blanket of what I started.
I Do not come to this sight to debate as many I see.
Debate for debates sake is simple argueing.
I have come here to have meaningful input and exchange.
Though debate may arise.
I can very clearly see the problem that arises when those of the religions of science and faith clash. I am trying like hell to avoid that foolishness. My main topic is too broad but I had a lot on my poor little mind. lol This is an aproach that I have never heard. The idea that we are a spirit and it dwells within the body had been around for ages but not described in the sense of physics. I had the hopes as this came to me that it might bridge some gap. The biggest obstacle that science has is that to the religion of science The world is flat until proven otherwise. We as spiritual beings know the world is not flat and you know what I mean.
I have been asked by some inteligent people here including administrators if I am "EVO" or"ID" That tells me something important about them especially when I have watched thier posting.
I see inteligent people treat EVO with the same fervor that crationists treat ID. That type of passion is not warranted to a theory. It smells the same to me It is either a theory or it isn't. It is no more foolish to defend the Bible than a theory.Both have thier very relavent purposes. I see them both clearly. Many do not. Science will teach us about the physical world and its laws but it will never do anything for the spirit. It will not comfort you when the bottom drops out. No theory will help the pain of a child or a parent dying. Rationality goes right out the window. I have seen it first hand.
Now I will tell you flat. I Do not believe in any way that the earth was created in 6 days and I was born Catholic. The general theoretical process of evolution makes sense but there are a lot of holes.
I also don't have a problem with having other forms of life evolve into what I am if it is the case.I feel that I am truly in the middle. Those who put thier faith in science can lose perspective just as those who burry thier head in religions can lose thiers.You mayhap expected a simple answer. You may find I often do not ablige These are the reasons why My topic should be kept separate so that it gets explored before it gets burried in the mess I created in my first forum. I will get better at this as I go.

I have not heard one person come within a mouses butt hair of grasping nor saying one word remotely relating to exactly what I stated.I have not the foggiest notion where some one gets ESP out of my
topic.This topic was intended to be looked at from the standpoint of physics.
We talk about forces all the time. But we can never see one. Only evidence that they exists. What I see it that many people do not like when the obvious stares them in the face. It's just that physics cannot put this in a neat little box and say ...there...that's a rule we can follow.

I respectfully request you seek out the definition of force. Isn't matter simply energy in an ordered form?
Energy in a specific state of excitation? Why certainly. Every time I decide to do something. No known physical laws will predict if, when, how, or why the force of me will act, or to what degree. For science to overlook that we are indeed a force that obeys both our own laws and physical laws is quite humorous, to me anyway.

Very poor example.
Ropes do not apply force. In your example it is the dog that applies the force.Gravity is a force. Show me gravity.
Electromagnetism is a force.Show me electromagnetism.
Sure as light is the expression of energy passing through a medium we
are a force as gravity and electromagnetism. Yes ....I know...the world is flat until proven otherwise....lol

This statement is an opinon/belief. What the will is cannot be defined by science. though there have been feeble attempts. Science will forever remain the wrong tool for the job. Though we may learn valuable things in the attempt

This is a perfect example of what I have been saying all along. You have only broken the dog down into it's physical parts....this can be done to the quantum level at the extreme however it does nothing to recognise what animates the stuff. Muscles/bones/cells/molecules/atoms ect. are only stuff. Each of these things do not apply the force. I believe this to be a very narrow and limiting perspective.
I am seeing it as a force is directed through them. A very different perspective. One that many refuse to even consider. Exploring this way of seeing things may teach us much. It may not. But I have never seen it done seriously. The fact that this conversation takes place is proof. If you choose not to see it that is your choice of belief. That is fodder for another forum. I must acknowledge that you are more than stuff as you must aknowledge me or all is meaningless in the first place, including science.Now it is obvious that you refuse to take a different perspective and even consider the possibility of what I have said. By disregarding the idea without exploration you are contradicting the very idea of scientific thought. All avenues should be explored. This is an avenue that I believe is worth exploration. Your choice is not to. You do not believe it to be possible.Science evolves through our perspectives. How we look at things allows us to see them differently. A different perspective often allows us to see things we were otherwise blind to. One must be willing to look in the first place.

I have. You have made the choice not to see it. This is a way of looking at things. It is not the only way. It illustrates what I have been saying in other threads. This view treats living beings as things. It is a useful tool but viewing living beings through this narrow window will only provide you with a view within it's limitations. Your world viewed in this light will remain forever flat. You can discuss ad nausium the causall effect of this that and the other thing including the futile attempt to explain who we are.
You have made the choice to put your belief in one perspective.
I choose not to limit myself in that fashion. It is quite simple.
However my view will allow more possibilities.This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 03-04-2006 01:43 PM

Here we will funamentally disagree. You cannot prove you are right because there is no right or wrong to prove. Just points of view. I see it simply to be your belief based soley on your perspective. I see that there are other ways to view things. You choose not to. I choose to explore thier possibilities. You choose not to. I see value in the exploration. You choose not to.I would ask that you take a second look at what I proposed:I should have specified known laws of physics in my first sentence.The laws of physics do not recognize the force of me. My physical body though, must obey them so I must succumb to them in that context.
I affect the world around me on a daily basis in some very unique and unpredictable ways.
I am a force that does things at will and in many ways not according to any known physical laws. In fact it can be said that the force that is “us” generates it’s own set of changing laws called beliefs. The force that is us succumbs to these laws both by coercion of other similar forces and our choice. By obeying these laws we in turn can have a profound and unpredictable effect on the physical world. In effect, our changing Laws can become a force and in turn, affect the physical world in unpredictable ways according to the laws of physics. In addition to this we as individual forces can choose to act against the very laws we generate.
Perhaps thinking of us in terms of an energy force will allow science to have a better glimpse at that which is “us”.I find this perspective interesting and would like to see it explored. I dissagree. Unless you are simply debating for debates sake. If you believe in what you say then this is how you define yourself. That is your choice. It is neither right or wrong but simply your choice.Objectively express for me with current physics or science for that matter, in meaningful human terms, the pain you feel when a spouse dies, The joy you feel when you hold your first child. Or any other feeling we experience for that matter.My point in this thread was to attempt to promote a view which may lead to understandings our current system of thought is not addressing adequately. Again if you choose not to go down that path it is your choice.

You have used the terms "conscious awareness" , "I" and fear which are not objective. You have also added hope into the mix.

Any other childish responses you would like to add? You wil find nothing I ever say to that falls to the level of response such as this.

blooper This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 03-07-2006 07:23 PM

Thank you. You are illustrating my point quite nicely.

That is because it was meant to attempt to introduce a different perspective. The motivation for his comment was very different. If one chooses not to explore the possibilities I have put forth that is thier right. The idea is not necessarily new. I do believe the way I aproached it is.

No...my statement was clear. My suggestion is to look at us as a force that science has not addressed yet.