Hurricanes defying conventional science.

Epsilon is one of many storms this season that meterologists have been baffled by. Is it possible that all of these storms that have followed improbable tracks are entirely natural? Sure! Is it possible that weather manipulation technology is being used? Yes, and I think it is probable. If the technology is available to manipluate the weather (and it is), will powerful governments pursue it? Yes. If these governments develop this technology, will they use it? Yes.ETA: Is there any evidence that weather manipulation tech is being used? ...well... I've looked at quite a few anomalous radar and satelite pics, but of course, there's no way I can tell if they are genuine.This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 12-05-2005 10:47 AM

I did a while back, but unfortuantely I didn't save any of the links, and I'm not going to go hunt them down again right now.Presumably here's a super-simplified version of how the current technology would work: Two or more powerful Radio signal generators would beam signals that intersect in the upper atmosphere over a certain side of the eye-wall of a hurricane. Some of the signal is bounced back to the source, which in turn bounces it back to the atmosphere setting up a resonance. At the intersection of the signals the air is heated up causing it to become less dense therefore creating a local drop in the pressure. This could be used to help the storm get organized and perhaps even help steer it.Interestingly, the site that I found with the collection of all of the radar and satellite anomalies couldn't offer any explanation for them. Several of the anomalies showed pairs of lines of intense rainfall moving in lock step with the hurricane and intersecting over its eye followed by an immediate change in the storm's behavior.But like I said, there's no way I can know if these images were faked. Chaotic systems are chaotic due to the impossibility of EXACTLY defining the initial parameters. Forcasters are always acquiring fresh data from which to create models. In most situations this data is accurate enough to produce an apparently linear model over a short time-span. But after a certain amount of time has passed chaos is reached and the models fail.Meteorologists use several different models to attempt to predict a storm's path. Under certain conditions the models are more likely to agree and the "linear" portion of the model can be plotted out over a greater timespan; however, in other cases the models may disagree limiting prediction capabilities.It would be interesting to go back and have a look at any storms that exhibited behavior outside of the predicted when multiple models were in agreement. To me, this would be somewhat strong, though definately not conclusive evidence that weather manipulation was occuring.

I just learned today in Thermodynamics class that the saturation temperature for water vapor at standard Atm pressure is 64.9 degrees Farenheit. So anything above 64.9 at standard Press is capable of adding energy to the storm. So 70 degrees is close to the limit but still doesn't violate any kind of laws to my knoweldge.

I did some more studying of my thermo... The 64.9 degrees was assuming an 85% relative humidity and an air temperature of 70 degrees. If the relative humidity is near 100%, which it would be in a hurricane, and the air temperature is near 70 degrees and the water temperature is also 70 degrees, no energy can be added to the storm. Even if the air temperature and relative humidity were lower, the cooling effect of evaporation would quickly cool the 70 degree water to the saturation temperature preventing it from adding hardly any energy at all. Plus you have to remember that hurricanes are constantly losing massive amounts of energy in rainfall, so even if the water is barely warm enough to add energy, this is not enough to balance the energy that is constantly being lost.Thus the typical requirement of 80 degree plus water to a considerable depth is understandable.So what Randman and all the meteorologists say is true, with the given information and the laws of physics, the hurricane should have lost a lot of energy over the 70 degree water.

It actually doesn't matter since we're dealing only with the partial vapor pressure, which can be pinned down with the relative humidity and the air temperature. I just wrote standard atmosphere, cuz that's what the example problem said, and that pressure was used to determine other things.Relative humidity equals the partial vapor pressure divided by the saturation pressure at the given temperature.Once you find the vapor pressure, you can find the saturation temperature or dew point. If the water temperature is above the dew point, then water evaporates sucking energy out of the water into the atmosphere. If the water temperature is at or below the saturation temperature, water condenses and energy is sucked out of the atmosphere.If the water temperature were 80 degrees and the air temperature were 70, much energy would be added. In this case, the water temperature is about the same is the air temp, so little to none should be added.

Maybe I should have said that differently: with the given information and looking only at the laws of physics that pertain to energy being added from the water, the hurricane shouldn't have strengthened. I'm sure there's probably other atmospheric factors that I'm not aware of that could on rare occasions cause a hurricane to strengthen even over cold water.

Man... why is everyone so damn arrogant and sassy on this board nowadays? The point is: there have been a lot of "rare" hurricanes this year. When you get a lot of data that is outside the statistical norm, you begin to consider that either your previous estimates of the norm were off or that some change has occurred to change the mean or variance.This means that either there's something new that science can discover, or someone has been messing with the weather. Either case would prove to be very exciting. You're all just in a permanent pissy mood. That's all. History shows that people who say a thing isn't possible are usually wrong. Now really... you think the science of weather modification hasn't made any progress in FOUR DECADES after tons of money and research and secret government programs around the world have been at it? You're sure becuase you've already assumed so. What kind of scientist are you? honestly....

That's not necessarily true... see there's this other thing called entropy. Because of entropy certain natural processes can only happen in one direction.For example: if you set a cup of 120 degree coffee in a 70 degree room for 5 minutes the coffee will NOT receive energy from the room, but will give energy to the air in the room lowering its temperature.When considering evaporation... the temperature of the water must be above the dew point of the atmosphere in order to add energy.

Good, then I can disregard all of your statments as ignorant opinion. Haha... well shoot, I guess we all ought to throw statistics out the window and just listen to you to tell us if something unusual is occuring based on your simple physics and observations from the back porch.Sooorry.. I know... man... its amazing how fast arrogant sassiness infected me too... I'mna have to quit this.