The beginning of the jihad in Europe?

Given that you cannot respond, instead referring to well-founded discussion as screed, it would appear that I can, indeed, rest my case.Evert note how i provide more links to more writers, Muslim and non Muslims, than perhaps anyone else?

I did not say when they entered the middle east, but Israel and other land areas in the region, for which i provided historical citations. One or both of those citations specifically stated them to come from what is now saudi Arabia.It seems like there's some kind of ego war here at EvC. Truth is far less important than beating an opponent.

Jar, I never said the Arabs entered the Middle East in the 7th century, for the simple reason that they were already there, just as you say, adn on which we agree. What i said was that they entered what is now Israel and the surrounding area. My citations backed that up. And thus, my point stands: Arabs invaded what is Israel and displaced most, but not all, of the Jews.

the Arabs are not the phillistines, who died out. There were some nomadic jews, but not generally. That is why there were two jewish states in Israel, before the modern 3rd one (but never an Arab state because arabs in the region were, generally, nomadic).I agree that this has nothing to do with the topic. But it was not i who digressed. However, in responding, i have perpetuated the digression.I offered several links from various sources on the rioting and general situation, to both Muslim and non muslim writers.As for personal experience with Muslims, it has been generally positive, in fact. My son's best friend, before he moved away, was Muslim (although i realized later why his father told me he had a hard time with my son being Jewish: they were Islamists). My daughter's best friend now is Muslim, as is her dayhome. I live in an area of the city where there is a notable Muslim population, including several near neighbours. Most are not Arab, and those who are fled Islamist tyranny. They despise the islamists no less than do I. These people are genuine democrats.

I guess we'll have to agree to disaGREE, THEN.

My historical citations can be replicated at numerous sources. they are fact. The writers to whom i linked are very well reputed. In fact, Amir tehari is often considered the foremost middle east expert at this time. His knowledge and insight always amazes me. daniel pipes is a much admired harvard historian. he is very close to many democratically minded Muslims and their organizations who, like pipes, are loathed by isalmists and their organizations and sympathizers. The jerusalem post is, obviously a Jewish perspective. But it employs Arab journalists, including one who is internationally renown. i don't remember off hand whom else i sourced on this thread, but all are well known.

Dictionaries are clear as to the definition of anti-Semitism, despite the efforts of some to muddy it these days. Unfortuantely, they seem to be having some success.

We're not defining "Semite", but "anti-semitism.definitions:Antisemitism - Wikipedia"Anti-Semitism (alternatively spelled antisemitism) is hostility towards or prejudice against Jews, which can range from individual hatred to institutionalized, violent persecution. The highly explicit ideology of Adolf Hitler's Nazism was the most extreme historical example of the phenomenon. Anti-Semitism has historically taken different forms:* Religious anti-Semitism, or anti-Judaism. Before the 19th century, most anti-Semitism was primarily religious in nature, based on Christian or Islamic interactions with and interpretations of Judaism. Since Judaism was generally the largest minority religion in Christian Europe and much of the Islamic world, Jews were often the primary targets of religiously-motivated violence and persecution from Christian and Islamic rulers. Unlike anti-Semitism in general, this form of prejudice is directed at the religion itself, and so generally does not affect those of Jewish ancestry who have converted to another religion, although the case of Conversos in Spain was a notable exception. Laws banning Jewish religious practices may be rooted in religious anti-Semitism, as were the expulsions of the Jews that happened throughout the Middle Ages."
========================================================http://education.yahoo.com/...dictionary/entry/anti-Semitism
anti-Semitism (nt-sm-tzm, nt-) KEY NOUN:1. Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
2. Discrimination against Jews.=================================================================
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/anti-Semitism
anti-Semitism:in Spanish | in French | in Italian |
in context | imagesAdapted From: WordNet 2.0 Copyright 2003 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.anti-semitism
A noun
1 anti-Semitism
the intense dislike for and prejudice against Jewish people

Your dad's reasons are not anti-Semitic. But the majority of those who oppose Israel are, as MLK knew well and addressed as such.natives, in fact, do have a much better claim to NA than do white people. Similarly, Jews do to Israel. rather than be redundant, i'll refer you to my arguments as presented before. It is noteworthy, though, that of all the nations on Earth, all created through conquest and reconquest, only Israel's right to exist is questioned. Given the ages old scourge of anti-Semitism, you can believe that to be coincidental. But it is not.As for you not being Jewish... actually, reform judaism says you are if you wish to be, as in the modern world it doesn't matter which parent is Jewish.

It is certainly true that we understand, more and more, why france opposed the war in iraq and has been consistently anti-Israel. we came to understand that french politicians and businesses were being bribed by hussein, as revealed in the oil for food scandal. And now we also learn that france was and is terrified of its Muslim population, so chose cyncical self-interest to mollify them, rather than stand up for democracy.

keep checking on Pipes. he is a much admired harvard Historian. As i wrote, many democratically minded Muslims work closely with him. Because pipes was one of the first to write about the growing Isalmist threat, and predicted a 9/11 attack on the US several years before one happened, he did raise the ire of some - especeially Islamist organizations. So be it. One of the Islamist organizations he offended deeply, was CAIR. Long before they were revealed to be what theya re, he exposed them. But their influence is such that they were able to have some initially successful efforts at muddying his reputation. Once several of their top people were jailed for terrorist related offenses, his reputation rose yet higher. Your quotes are, in fact, typical out-of-context slurs used against him. i;ve read them before, and then seen his response which demonstrates factually the disingenuous tactics, and teh desperation of those he exposes to discredit him.
perhaps you do not realize what this allusion is about: "with reagrds to intimidation of professors who criticised Israel.." look up Campus watch. It is a site he created to confront lies regularly taught in Middle east studies departments. At first, campus watch was considered controversial and got some bad ink set up by teh slanderers he was exposing there. Nothing is said of it anymore, because its solid scholarship is simply beyong dispute. don't believe me? I challenge you to go there and find misinformation.i defy you to read any article or essay of his and demonstrate it to be anything but well-reasoned, well-researched and strictly factual.That he was appointed to that presidential commission speaks to his credibility, despite your effort to spin it otherwise. Similarly, your effort to discredit Amer tehari - of all people!!! - because he might have fled the islamists (my oh my, what a mark against him) is truly alternative universe stuff.

You desperately need to consider propaganda for what it is, as well as the make-up of the UN: almost half Muslim, African tyrannies that curry islamic favour, and even some European nations, like france, making cynical deals and fearing their Muslim population, while also needing their votes. Israel's UN isolation reflects its status as a tiny, oil free country, with nothing to barter for influence (no UN oil for food bribe and corruption possibilities either), and the disgust it earns for being an outpost of democracy in a region where rulers are terrified of democratic revolution. (Ever wonder why the UN has condemned Israel more than all other states combined, but never an arab state? Not Sudan for committing a genocide against, first, its Christians and then its Animist Black muslims? Never china for inavding Tibet? And on and on.)no nation, not one, not ever, has been so resolutely judicious in its dealings with an obstinate, nihilist and suicidal enemy as has Israel. History will condemn the world, yet again, for its diseased anti-Semitism as sickenly demonstrated by the UN and so many states and people, including those who should have known better.

I could look up Pipes demonstration of the non contexual quote, but i can't bother. And, again, that he was appointed to a presidential commission speaks to his respect.In any event, i quoted many writers on this thread. all have a similar perspective on the riots, tehari too (who, BTW, is one of the democratically minded Muslims i referencd as much respecting Pipes).

What the heck: i decided to look up his comments after all:"This sentence (the one poster Bobbins quoted) has over the years attracted considerable attention. My goal in this article (available at The Muslims are Coming! The Muslims are Coming! :: Daniel Pipes) was to characterize the thinking of Western Europeans, not give my own views. In retrospect, I should either have put the words “brown-skinned peoples” and “strange foods” in quotation marks or made it clearer that I was explaining European attitudes rather than my own. By way of example of those attitudes, here are some quotations from top French politicians from that era."here's a link to his site, where he explains slurs aimed at him.Reply to CAIR's Attack on Daniel PipesAnd, again, i defy you to find anything of his, or at Campus watch, which is anything but well-reasoned, well-researched and scholarly.

Again: the vilification of Israel, born of cynical self-interest, is to the UN's and the world's eternal shame. (BTW, have you noted that as koffi Anna desperately tried to rebuild the demolished credibility of the UN, he has begun ot reverse some its anti-Semitism?)